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Generation 4-4 Pajero NX model 2014 -

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  #11  
Old 09-04-20
farcanal farcanal is offline
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Originally Posted by Buckos View Post
Hello OJ,

Thanks for your response. Sorry, no genuine idea of towball download, having been designed and built for us by the great Bruce from Evernew, with good balance, one could suspect around 200kgs?

Front seat combined weight approx. 140kgs. second row no occupants, travelling load would never exceed 30kgs. and usually much less.

Rear cargo area would be around 35kg. maximum for fridge, plus bits and some tools, say 55kgs. On the previous car, the second battery was here, but I am told that it can fit under the bonnet with this car. Worst case, it stays in the back, so add 30kg. or so in the rear if that happens.

Some of this is not very exact I realise, but best I can manage, sorry.

Paul
Auxiliary battery fits very nicely under the bonnet, with the right tray fitted.
I believe the Pajero comes with 2 batteries ex factory in cold (freezing) climates.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-20
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old Jack old Jack is offline
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Hi Paul,

I have been working on your suspension calculations and need the following information.

1. With the car parked on level ground can you please confirm;
a. The front and rear ride heights. Measure these with the car empty, from the centre of the wheel
hub to the underside of the wheel arch, measured in a vertical line.
b. The measurement from the ground to the top of your DO35 pin height?

2. With your Pop Top unhitched and the drawbar level what is the height above the ground of the top of the DO35 hitch.

3. With the car parked on level ground and the Pop Top is hitched up what are the following measurements? My assumptions are based on a 10% towball download. Ideally it would be best to measure this accurately. This is also likely to change as the caravan is loaded. Chances are there will be an Easter Sale of from Repco or Autobahn so you should be able to pickup a scale for under $100. This is a good thing to have as it helps you check if you are loading the caravan correctly.
a. Front ride height, measured from the centre of the hub to the underside of the wheel arch, in a
vertical line. I suspect this is 10 to 20mm higher than when the PopTop was not hitched up.
b. Rear ride height, measured from the centre of the hub to the underside of the wheel arch, in a
vertical line. I suspect this is 20-30mm lower than when the Pop Top was not hitched up.
c. The top of the DO35 Coupling height above the ground when the Pop Top is hitched up.

4. Does your Pop Top have single or Dual axles?
If Dual axle what sort of suspension? Independent? Air?, Leaf Rocker Load sharing? Leaf Fixed
Eye? Leaf Slipper?

5. Are you intending to fit the suspension yourself or have it done for you?
If so who are you thinking of using for the installation?

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
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  #13  
Old 09-04-20
Buckos Buckos is offline
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Thanks OJ, that looks like a job for this weekend, I shall get to work on one of the days when the PM says we are to stay home and advise the results. I can give you some answers to 4 and 5 now, it has Cruisemaster independent suspension, I can verify the model name/number later. Certainly not intending to fit the suspension myself, I had thought I would get it fitted by the supplier, whoever that turns out to be, I will obviously need one in Adelaide.

Paul
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  #14  
Old 10-04-20
Buckos Buckos is offline
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Hello OJ,

Been out with the measuring tape and results are as follows. There is a difference between heights side to side, as you can see. The car is parked under our carport and when the concrete floor was done, a 1% slope was allowed for drainage. The car was parked for this exercise with the driver's (right) side on the lower side of the carport, which may affect the measurement, I don't know. The slope is virtually imperceptible to the naked eye. Anyway, answers to your questions:

1. a. Front right 495mm, front left 500mm, rear right 510mm, rear left 520mm.
b. ground to top of DO35 when in position 507mm.

2. Van unhitched, level, to top of DO35 plate 470mm.

3. a. Front right 500mm, front left 508mm.
b. rear right 485mm, rear left 490mm.
c. height to top of DO35 pin when hitched 440mm.

4. Van is single axle and has Cruisemaster XT coil independent suspension, dual dampers each side.

5. As before, fitting to be by supplier. I once fitted dampers to a Sigma wagon and never again!! Supplier would need to be in Adelaide.

Thanks very much for your time, please do not waste too much of this weekend on this if you have family to spend it with.

Regards, Paul
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  #15  
Old 10-04-20
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old Jack old Jack is offline
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Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info.
How many kms on your NX?
Minimum legal rear ride height is 488mm so you a right on the limit when you are hitched up. I am assuming the van is empty, so how many kgs do you think you will load into the van also how many litres of water do you put in the tanks?
I am looking to see how close we can get the rear ride height to your 470mm top of coupling on the draw bar.

I am aiming for 525- 535mm front and 560-570mm rear when unloaded. When you are loaded as per your weights I hope to get you close to level at around 535 front and rear, so your caravan drawbar is close to level.
Edit: Note drawbar level height above the ground is 470mm as a 50mm drop hitch will most likely be required to get the drawbar level.

I can only work off theoretical manufacturing specifications provided to me by the spring manufacturers and they tell me there is up to a 2.5% tolerance on their coil springs. 2.5% is a lot, a coil that is 345mm in free length then worse case is a free length of between 336 mm and 354mm. Especially when a 10mm change in coil free length results in a 20mm change in ride height? I have used Kings, Lovells and Dobinson coils and have generally found Kings to be closest to specifications.

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

Last edited by old Jack; 01-05-20 at 11:12 PM. Reason: typo fixed and Edit Note added.
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  #16  
Old 10-04-20
Buckos Buckos is offline
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Hello OJ,

About 60kms on car, new last Saturday, not much going out since!!. Van close to empty, modest amount of equipment, mostly light to medium weight in there at present, but water tanks full, 65 litres each, one in front and one behind axle. Travelling kit added would be clothes, food, Weber, minor bits of kit, some in front and some behind axle, say around 70 - 80 kgs maximum. I assume a typo in your 554mm figure, should be 354? Anyway, thanks again.

Regards, Paul
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  #17  
Old 14-04-20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckos View Post
Hello OJ,

Thanks for your response. Sorry, no genuine idea of towball download, having been designed and built for us by the great Bruce from Evernew, with good balance, one could suspect around 200kgs?

Front seat combined weight approx. 140kgs. second row no occupants, travelling load would never exceed 30kgs. and usually much less.

Rear cargo area would be around 35kg. maximum for fridge, plus bits and some tools, say 55kgs. On the previous car, the second battery was here, but I am told that it can fit under the bonnet with this car. Worst case, it stays in the back, so add 30kg. or so in the rear if that happens.

Some of this is not very exact I realise, but best I can manage, sorry.

Paul
Hi Paul,

The conservative springs to use that will give you a modest lift and greatly improved load carrying capacity without a large reduction of ride heights when loaded/hitched up or having the suspension too stiff for when you are empty are.

Front King Part Number KCFR-34, this should give you about a 25mm to 35mm lift over the factory coils with a slight increase in spring rates.

Rear; King Part Number KCRR-35, this should give you about a 35mm to 45mm lift over the factory coils when empty and roughly a 50% increase in spring rate but once loaded and hitched up you can expect about a 30mm drop from the empty ride height so your caravan drawbar should be close to level and a 60% increase in spring rate.

Whilst this spring rate increase looks a lot you need to remember the factory real coils are really soft linear rate specification hence your requirement for a suspension upgrade, the King coils are progressive rate so they give you empty comfort but increased weight carrying capacity without the loss of too much ride height.

The KCRS-35 has the same spring rate as the KCRR-35 but are 15mm shorter in free length. I have fitted a set of KCRS-35 to a mates NW because he did not want a lift but wanted to carry 100-150kg in the rear seat/cargo area combined and had a 150kg towball load on his camper, without the rear suspension sagging below the legal minimum ride height. I have driven his NW several times both empty and loaded and the rear spring rates are still quite comfortable in my opinion and my mate was happy with the results.

The good thing about the KCRS-35 and KCRR-35 is they are a progressive spring rate so at full spring compression they have a 72% increase in spring rate over the factory coils. This translates to far less pitching when towing and way less chance of the suspension bottoming out when you hit a washout or dip. Using a KCRR-35HD coil would give you similar empty ride heights and less loss of ride height when loaded and hitched but at the expense of 74% increase in spring rate when empty and about 80% when loaded and hitched up, so this maybe too firm for your liking.

Struts and Shockers, my go to brand for recreational 4wds at the moment is OzTec, unfortunately no one supplies these in Adelaide but you can order King coils and OzTec shockers from GSA Wholesale Suspension in Qld. Speak to Steve Shepard as they give forum discount if you mention that GSA was recommended to you.

As for fitting a few forum people have used Webb Suspension at Holden Hill or SA Suspension Centre at Poorka or Wright Street Auto in the CBD. You will need to get a quote from any or all of these firms, expect to pay $100 to $140 an hour and the work will take about 5 to 6 hours.

Other struts and shockers you could use are KYB Skorched 4X4 or Monroe Gas Magnum TDT.
These both have a good reputation for a reasonable price.

My experience with King coils fitted to 4 different Gen 4 Pajero's have been KCFR-34HHD, KCRS-35, KCRR-35HD and KCRR-35EHD but these were for different applications and requirements in regard to axle loads and ride heights.

All my calculations are based on manufacturers spring specifications and the assumption that the rate of spring rate progression is linear, as no manufacturer publishes load vs compressed height tables/graphs.

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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  #18  
Old 14-04-20
Buckos Buckos is offline
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Hello OJ,

That is a very detailed response, for which I am most grateful. Once I have carefully thought through the details of what you have said, I will make a final decision, but it will certainly be King Springs, just which part number. I notice also that Ian H., the first responder, has King as well and seems happy. Struts and dampers will also need research, but I will stick to the brands you named. Fitting at Wright Street should be OK as I live south of the CBD, while the others are north.

Again, many thanks for your time and effort, it is much appreciated.

Regards, Paul
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  #19  
Old 18-04-20
pajaj70 pajaj70 is offline
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Have been looking into the future as my standard suspension has seen it's best days, with 80k on the clock it maybe something to consider. I will be interested in aftermarket suspension which is more or less a direct upgrade to factory. I don't need a 2 inch lift or any rear increased spring rating for towing or carrying capacity, in fact i would be limited to around 20 -25 mm height increase due to garage door restrictions.

So far i have found standard ride height in King springs and also Lovells, Bilsteins shocks seem to go well with either of these.

Any Melbourne suspension shops which could also be of help so i get what i require the first time?
Thinking Dobinsons, or others which are agents for Kings or Lovell springs or Bilsteins shocks.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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  #20  
Old 18-04-20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pajaj70 View Post
Have been looking into the future as my standard suspension has seen it's best days, with 80k on the clock it maybe something to consider. I will be interested in aftermarket suspension which is more or less a direct upgrade to factory. I don't need a 2 inch lift or any rear increased spring rating for towing or carrying capacity, in fact i would be limited to around 20 -25 mm height increase due to garage door restrictions.

So far i have found standard ride height in King springs and also Lovells, Bilsteins shocks seem to go well with either of these.

Any Melbourne suspension shops which could also be of help so i get what i require the first time?
Thinking Dobinsons, or others which are agents for Kings or Lovell springs or Bilsteins shocks.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
If you are happy with the front and rear ride heights and spring rates then why change the coils? Standard height aftermarket coils will ride firmer and slightly higher.
Upgrading the struts and shockers will improve the ride comfort and handling and maybe this is all you need?
Bilsteins are a nice performance strut and shocker that are more road orientated than many other shockers. I you are a driver who likes to push things a little bit harder then you will appreciate the body roll control Bilsteins will give you. If you are a more sedate driver then the Bisteins maybe a bit firm for you.

How would you describe your driving styles?

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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