Below Nav Bar Ad Module

Collapse

Overloading vehicles - for discussion

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • nj swb
    Resident
    • Jun 2007
    • 7332
    • Adelaide

    Overloading vehicles - for discussion

    Wow!

    I stumbled across a video on youtube, of a vehicle failure on the Canning (posted this month).

    Come and Join the Wanneroo Wanderers 4WD Club as they continue their Adventure across Australia after crossing the Simpson Desert. They now head for the Tan...


    So what? Vehicle failure on the Canning is a regular occurrence, although this failure is more severe than most. But it was the discussion that caught my eye, and the contributions of one person in particular. Lots of information - I haven't read all of it, and I'm still digesting the bits that I have read. Like the following advice to the poster of the video, about his Hilux:

    Advice...hmmmm..
    1. Fit a Ryco oil catch can kit to avoid blocking the PCV system with oil, and minimising the the oil misting that contaminates the inlet manifold, restricting airflow, generating inaccurate MAP sensor readings that confuse the ECU into thinking the engine is still cold, thus instructing the injectors to hold open for an extended period causing rich running situation and excessive soot production, which will long term cause backpressure throughout the exhaust system. Long term, if this situation is not rectified, engine oil will become extensively contaminated with abrasive soot, which will cause excessive engine wear and sludge the motor. Do not use mineral oil, always use fully synthetic, preferably Penrite due to superior chemical technologies designed for Australian conditions, and do not exceed 10k service. No oil currently on the market is designed to exceed this distance, especially in daily drivers that contaminates build up in due to the oil never reaching operating temperature.

    2. We remove the standard Toyota oil filter system, installing a dual bypass system, again supplied by Ryco, and utilising the recommended disposable filters. The bypass system giving the assurance of complete and sustainable filtration if the primary becomes restricted, and enters bypass mode. You will not know if this occurs with the factory system allowing contaminates to continue to circulate. The aftermarket system offers a telltale light system to indicate bypass.

    3. Fit a radiator coolant filter to minimise solid particular contamination injection thru the expansion tank due to cap sealing failures. There is nothing available on the market so we engineered our own system that involves adding a bypass to the top radiator hose and the use of a Cummins diesel coolant filter remote mount. Simply, bypass a restricted amount of coolant from the top radiator hose, thru the filter and return back into the system thru the bottom radiator hose. To achieve this we use Davis Craig low coolant radiator hose adapters, modified to accept 3/4 " BSP fittings. This allows the entire coolant volume to be filtered every 2-3 hrs, depending on coolant flow and any other restrictions.

    4. Fit a Redarc coolant monitoring system, install a screamer siren and flashing light into the vehicles interior via the external output, and add a 10-20 second timer within the circuit to shutdown the vehicle when activated. The timer allows you to take evasive action to move to safety. The system we install incorporates a safety implementation that will not allow the engine to be restarted until coolant is replaced. There is a over ride system known only to our mechanics.

    5. Carefully inspect all mounting hardware of the radiator/condenser as they are prone to failure induced by reduced torsional rigidity engineering with the front radiator structure, resulting in excessive pressure application at attachment points, both on the vehicle and components.

    6. Update wheel studs as a Toyota supplier subsituted poor grade high tensile studs for a lower grade, the difference is in the metallurgy. Place with grade 8 mining spec.

    7. Carefully inspect Sunraysa rims for rust hidden behind the silicon band that seals the open joint between the rim and centre. Moisture will quickly degrade the surfaces as the area is unpainted, withholds moisture in a warm atmosphere and reacts with the piwdercoating, causing corrosion to spread via osmosis between the substrate and coating. Failure is usually catastrophic. Always use mine spec fully galvanised heavy duty rims to assure this will not occur. These can be powdercoated without chemically destroying the galvanic properties.

    8. Springpacks, bushings, and mounting points are all recognised areas of failure due to excessive body flexing caused by overloading, uneven positioning of storage facilities, excessive speeds over corrugated roads, and lack of close maintenance. Fracturing around points of contact are common due to body flexing but rarely fail. Take close notice of damage to underbody sealant near attachment. This can indicate extensive flexing. Please dont take this as gospel in your situation, as all situations are unique. Vehicles on mine sites are in the most extreme environments imaginable and failures not recognised in the civilian world are common. This is why Toyota has developed their mining packs for Hilux and Landcruisers over the past 40 years. Developments and failures onsite ensure the civilian version is virtually indestructable. And for the ultimate off-road vehicle, look to a mining pack as your next purchase. With over 2000 improvements over the civilian versions, and factory fitment of such equipment as extra remote mount batteries and axle portals, they are possibly the ultimate off-road vehicle.
    As I said, posted for discussion. One man's opinion offered to a Hilux owner, it may contain points for us all to consider. Or not.

    There are more posts from the above author in the comments to the video, for those who are truly interested.

    Shall we discuss?
    NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

    Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

    Scorpro Explorer Box
  • dhula
    Valued Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 1196
    • South of Perth

    #2
    Watched the vid last night or maybe the night before but as it was on the Tbox couldn't iread the comments etc.
    Read some of it now but got tired of reading the opinions etc so stopped.
    This guys thoughts/comment are based on vehicles working full time in the dust, mud and shit at mine sites which is not what the average Joe like us does so while I agree with some of what he says, I don't agree with other points as it does not apply to our kind of use.
    2010 NT Activ, DiD+lazy shift. Bushskins+Boo's, Kings springs+Monroe shocks+Firestone Airbags, MM towbar, MM nudgebar.
    2006 KJ Cherokee, CRD+lazy shift. Ironman springs and OME shocks, MoPar skids.

    Comment

    • NFT5
      Valued Member
      • Apr 2011
      • 1580
      • Canberra

      #3
      Mostly sensible stuff although very Toyota specific. That's not to say that we don't have weak points and this level of preparedness shouldn't go astray.


      That said, a couple of concerns that I'd have:



      4. Fit a Redarc coolant monitoring system, install a screamer siren and flashing light into the vehicles interior via the external output, and add a 10-20 second timer within the circuit to shutdown the vehicle when activated. The timer allows you to take evasive action to move to safety. The system we install incorporates a safety implementation that will not allow the engine to be restarted until coolant is replaced. There is a over ride system known only to our mechanics.

      So you're doing 140km/h overtaking a triple on a derestricted road in the NT and this thing goes off, giving you all of 10 seconds to slow down and find a safe spot before the engine shuts down for good unless you just happen to be carrying 10 litres coolant in your already loaded to the max vehicle. I guess it would be comforting to know that "their" mechanics know how to over-ride the shutdown.



      This next one is quite important and often overlooked:
      7. Carefully inspect Sunraysa rims for rust hidden behind the silicon band that seals the open joint between the rim and centre. Moisture will quickly degrade the surfaces as the area is unpainted, withholds moisture in a warm atmosphere and reacts with the piwdercoating, causing corrosion to spread via osmosis between the substrate and coating. Failure is usually catastrophic. Always use mine spec fully galvanised heavy duty rims to assure this will not occur. These can be powdercoated without chemically destroying the galvanic properties.


      If I was a Toyota owner this next one would seriously bother me. What they advertise as "unbreakable" isn't, and only needs 2000 items fixed to make it so.


      Vehicles on mine sites are in the most extreme environments imaginable and failures not recognised in the civilian world are common. This is why Toyota has developed their mining packs for Hilux and Landcruisers over the past 40 years. Developments and failures onsite ensure the civilian version is virtually indestructable. And for the ultimate off-road vehicle, look to a mining pack as your next purchase. With over 2000 improvements over the civilian versions, and factory fitment of such equipment as extra remote mount batteries and axle portals, they are possibly the ultimate off-road vehicle.
      Chris

      Comment

      • sharkcaver
        "2000"+ Valued Contributor
        • May 2009
        • 6270
        • Perth

        #4
        I've been watching this saga unload for a few weeks now. I have an interest cause a mate has one - non airbag fitted.

        This isn't the only one that has suffered the same fate. Others were not air bag contributions either.

        Surprisingly, there is nothing on this supposed recurrent issue on the dmax forum.

        As to the quote by Andrew Hallet-Patterson (as pasted by NJ)......well anyone that swans around with a hyphenated surname has to be a tosser.

        Like wise his comments.

        To my mind, he is just big noting himself, trying to use unreviewed science and his own personal experience as to what went down.

        With no evidence to back his statements up, some of his comment may be right. Or it could be completely false.

        Starting off with "fit only ryco filters" says to me exercise caution with all his comment.

        Beware the hyphenated, ryco toting know it all. The internet is full of them breeds.
        MY16 NX GLX5 with just a few bits added. MY14 D-max spacecab, also with a few bits added.

        My Journeys

        Comment

        • Nab
          Valued Member
          • Mar 2012
          • 1410
          • Perth

          #5
          Crikey, just reading the quoted stuff in NJs post, you would never leave the driveway due to all the crap added to the car! You would spend more time checking things then enjoying the outdoors!! I like to be prepared but to a sensible level, it’s easy to go overboard.
          SOLD 2004 NP 3.2 auto
          NOW 2014 Ranger XLT auto

          Comment

          • BruceandBobbi
            Valued Member
            • Aug 2016
            • 3254
            • Greater Sydney

            #6
            A hyphenated surname means you mother isn't sure who your father was.

            Comment

            • mongoose
              Member
              • Aug 2007
              • 191

              #7
              My thoughts? Most people forget their vehicle does have a limited carry capacity.
              I remember some talk years ago about Pajero chassis failures, I mentioned to someone that I was planning on doing the canning stock route and some tool suggested a Pajero wasn’t up to the job. It was amusing when last time they went away their Hilux had a major failure.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              NW Pajero VR-X
              Currently stock

              Comment

              • HeavyPizzaz
                Valued Member
                • May 2017
                • 807
                • Sydney

                #8
                Originally posted by sharkcaver View Post
                Surprisingly, there is nothing on this supposed recurrent issue on the dmax forum.
                Ah wow, I watched the vid last not but not closely enough obviously.. I thought it was a Hilux! The Toyota comments above must’ve confused me.

                I thought the Isuzus were meant to be pretty unbreakable too, if you believe the marketing.

                As I’ve said elsewhere on the forum, when I bought my NX a slightly older MUX was the alternative but then read about the chassis cracks in the engine bay. Enough stories to put me off.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • nj swb
                  Resident
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 7332
                  • Adelaide

                  #9
                  To be fair to the hyphenated-surname one:

                  He has a background in the mining industry, and stated they have seen this failure on mine sites. It may not be terribly common outside of a mining environment.

                  His advice that I quoted was requested. He didn't decide simply to impart his wisdom on Hilux because he feels special, he was asked to advise the poster of the video - so he did.

                  I don't know who chose Ryco where he works, but I'm fairly certain it's not because they're cheapest. I expect they have maintenance records that few of us could rival, and they have learned what protects their vehicles and what doesn't.

                  I was amazed at the extent to which they go to make the "unbreakable" Toyotas survive in that environment. As he posts, they are regularly overloaded and punished mercilessly in a hostile environment by drivers with an exceedingly low care-factor, but 2000 changes in a "mining pack"?

                  I might remember that the next time somebody tells me I should "drive a Toyota" - because that's what the mining companies use.
                  NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                  Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                  Scorpro Explorer Box

                  Comment

                  • disco stu
                    Valued Member
                    • Dec 2018
                    • 3106
                    • Wollongong

                    #10
                    I thought half or more of what that guy said sounded like gibberish. Has he tested the coatings on those rims to see that there is a semi permeable membrane for the movement of ions across a concentration gradient causing the corrosion, or is he just spouting the word osmosis to try and sound smarter than he is?

                    Coolant filter? Needed because of cap sealing failure? Only partial bypass? Sounds to me like if that filter works fine when new, it would quickly start to bypass the bypass as soon as that filter clogs up at all just flowing through the lower restriction main hoses like it would without a filter.

                    I could go on, but I'm questioning the guy, and not because he has hyphened last name!

                    Comment

                    • jaffles
                      Valued Member
                      • Nov 2020
                      • 1024
                      • Tamborine Mountain

                      #11
                      I guess outback travel can find the weak point in any car. This blokes diff snapping could as simple as metal fatigue verse any other possibility.

                      As for the guy from the mines response, I think mine vehicles like defence vehicles are treated like no others. The intended abuse many of these vehicles get is somewhat different to what a personalised vehicle is subject to much of the time.

                      Still you do see people do dumb things in overloaded personalised vehicles. The amount of money getting to the adventure, like fuel, accessories, tyres, time off work and so on, doesn't seem to deter many flogging the guts out of the pride and joy on first dune of their big desert crossing. Fully loaded instead of empty, its there and must be concurred and they're not doing the soft cocks track.

                      I think the basics like speed appropriate for the situation, greatly lowered tyres pressures on decent off road tyres, and realistic weight load and distribution go a long way. Serious pre tip preparation not done on the scab will most likely see your through without issue. That is replacing bushes, bearing, suspension, radiators etc. What ever looks suspect. $500 in the city is potentially many thousands out in the middle of nowhere.

                      Also think spare filters and not being scared - scabby - to lazy to use them would be my choice over adding more filters. But that's a 50-50 call.

                      Comment

                      Matched content

                      Collapse
                      Working...
                      X