Auto transmission issues.

[Tone13]

Hi all,

The Challenger has hit 240,000kms and in the last few weeks has started popping out of gear.

Some trips (I do lots of long distance driving of 200km per day a few days a week) the transmission will work perfectly fine. Others, it will pop out of gear numerous times in a trip. Sometimes when coming to a crawl and other while on the freeway at 110kph. The gear indicator on the dash with go out (not showing a gear at all) and the car just revs. Sometimes it revs and then engages but mostly is just seems to go into neutral and I need to move the stick into Nuetral and back into drive again for it to re engage. When it happens at freeway speeds, the paddles will no longer respond until I turn off the ignition and restart, then all is good again.
There is no clunking when it happens, seems to happen smoothly so I'm wondering if it's the selector (electronic?).

Anyone had similar issues with theirs?

[old Jack]

Quick guess is the inhibit switch needs adjusting.
There is a thread about this, I will try and find a link later.
OJ.

[Tone13]

Quick guess is the inhibit switch needs adjusting.
There is a thread about this, I will try and find a link later.
OJ.

Thanks OJ, just had a quick search and have found some posts in the PB Auto thread.
So glad to hear that it seems like a simple fix.
Apart from this issue the Challenger has been running like a dream after running some injector cleaner through with a few tanks of fuel. Feels like a new engine.
Just did three days in Robe and super happy with its capabilities.

PS, reading the posts, it seems like an easy DIY fix with a 14mm spanner but where exactly is the inhibitor switch? Do I take the centre console out?

[old Jack]

Inhibit switch is on the side of the gearbox where the control cable connects.

From the Servuce Manual.
1.Move the selector lever to the N position.
2.Loosen the adjusting nut, and set the manual control lever upper and lower to the free condition.
3.Move the manual control lever lower to the neutral position.

4.Align the hole at the end of the manual control lever lower and the hole in the inhibitor switch flange (section A - A in the illustration at left).
note The inhibitor switch can be aligned by inserting a 5-mm bar in the holes of the manual control lever end and the inhibitor switch flange.

5.Gently push the transmission control cable in the direction as shown in the illustration at left, and tighten the adjusting nut the specified torque.
Tightening torque: 23 ± 4 N·m
6.Check that the selector lever is at the N position.
7.Check that the transmission shifts to the correct range corresponding to the position of the selector lever, and that it functions correctly in that range.

http://faq.out-club.ru/download/pajero_sport_2008/maintenance/Service_Manual_2009_2011/img/23/AC802877AB00ENG.pdf

http://faq.out-club.ru/download/pajero_sport_2008/maintenance/Service_Manual_2009_2011/img/23/AC503971AB00ENG.pdf

OJ.

[Tone13]

Inhibit switch is on the side of the gearbox where the control cable connects.

From the Servuce Manual.
1.Move the selector lever to the N position.
2.Loosen the adjusting nut, and set the manual control lever upper and lower to the free condition.
3.Move the manual control lever lower to the neutral position.

4.Align the hole at the end of the manual control lever lower and the hole in the inhibitor switch flange (section A - A in the illustration at left).
note The inhibitor switch can be aligned by inserting a 5-mm bar in the holes of the manual control lever end and the inhibitor switch flange.

5.Gently push the transmission control cable in the direction as shown in the illustration at left, and tighten the adjusting nut the specified torque.
Tightening torque: 23 ± 4 N·m
6.Check that the selector lever is at the N position.
7.Check that the transmission shifts to the correct range corresponding to the position of the selector lever, and that it functions correctly in that range.

http://faq.out-club.ru/download/pajero_sport_2008/maintenance/Service_Manual_2009_2011/img/23/AC802877AB00ENG.pdf

http://faq.out-club.ru/download/pajero_sport_2008/maintenance/Service_Manual_2009_2011/img/23/AC503971AB00ENG.pdf

OJ.

Great! Thanks so much OJ.

[Tone13]

Adding to this thread, I had the inhibitor switch adjusted and the issue got better but didn't completely go away.

My 2012 Challenger is now on 290,000 k's and has been great mechanically. Electrically, I think it was made by Alfa Romeo in the 80's

My issues as per first post are back and I had the mechanic adjust the inhibitor switch again yesterday when it was in for a service. He didn't think the inhibitor switch was the main cause and he looked into why the AT might be jumping out of gear and gave me this list of fault codes from his scan. He cleared the codes and took the Chall for a short drive and no new codes appeared. Attached is what he found.

Apart from this, the drivers seat electric backrest hasn't worked for years, the Audio controls on the steering wheel no longer work, sometimes, the paddles stop working ........one thing I'm wondering is that if my clock spring needs to be replaced as would be suggested by the audio controls on the wheel not working, could this effect the paddles and transmission and confuse the transmission system and cause it to pop out of gear?

[geopaj]

Definitely sounds like the clock spring is failing. Not sure if it’s related to your trans issue but I would definitely replace it - the clock spring also runs the airbag wiring. It’s a common failure for all modern vehicles and your at the kms to expect it to need doing.

Clock Springs Australia sell decent quality aftermarket ones for much less than genuine (I’ve got one of theirs in mine). It shouldn’t take any longer than an hour so that should give you an idea of labour cost if you aren’t going to do it yourself.

[old Jack]

Agree with Geopaj re replacing the clock spring ASAP.

The gearbox problems are unlikely be related to the paddle shifters/clock spring because the paddle shifters are fixed to the steering column and do not rotate with the steering wheel but to be sure it would be worth disconnecting the paddle shifters and see if the problems persist, likewise with the sports shift switching in the centre console.

Below is a list of the AT Fault Codes, note there are different fault code numbers for the same problem, it all depends what scan tool you are using to read the codes.
When cross checking with the list your mechanic provided then the only fault code that is on the list and is associated with the auto trans is U1109 ETACS-ECU time out.

I think the problem is electrical so you will need to go to an electrician with auto trans control experience The inhibit switch played up 2 years ago and the problem was resolved by adjustment, then another adjustment to the inhibit switch solved the problem for a short time only, so I would be looking at fitting a new inhibit switch or at the very least checking all the electrical plugs for the gearbox wiring loom that are under the car. I would be disconnecting them and checking for cleanliness and corrosion on the terminals.


OJ.

Diagnosis code No.		Diagnosis item	Reference page
M.U.T.-III	General scan tool
P1606*1	-	EEPROM malfunction (A/T-ECU)	-
P1763	P0710 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0713 <6G7>	A/T fluid temperature sensor system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1764	P0710 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0712 <6G7>	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1766	P0715	Input shaft speed sensor system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1767	P0720	Output shaft speed sensor system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1769	-	Stop lamp switch system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1770	P0705	Inhibitor switch system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1771	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1773	P0750 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0753 <6G7>	LR solenoid valve system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1774	P0755 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0758 <6G7>	UD solenoid valve system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1775	P0760 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0763 <6G7>	2ND solenoid valve system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1776	P0765 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0768 <6G7>	OD solenoid valve system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1777	P0770	RED solenoid valve system <5A/T>	<4D5, 6B3>
P1778	P0740 <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0743 <6G7>	DCC solenoid valve system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1779	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0731 <6G7>	1st gear incorrect ratio	<4D5-4A/T, 4M4> <4D5-5A/T, 6B3> <6G7>
P1780	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0732 <6G7>	2nd gear incorrect ratio
P1781	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0733 <6G7>	3rd gear incorrect ratio
P1782	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0734 <6G7>	4th gear incorrect ratio
P1783	-	5th gear incorrect ratio <5A/T>
P1784	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0736 <6G7>	Reverse gear incorrect ratio
P1786	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0741 <6G7>	Damper clutch system (stuck off)	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1787	- <4D5, 4M4, 6B3> P0742 <6G7>	Damper clutch system (stuck on)	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1788	P1751	A/T control relay system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1790	-	Back up line system	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
P1901	-	Can signal time-out (Engine-ECU)	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3>
U1073	-	Bus Off	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
U1100*2	-	Engine-ECU time-out (related to engine)	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3>
U1102*2	-	ASC-ECU time-out	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
U1109*2	-	ETACS-ECU time-out	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3> <6G7>
U1120*2	-	Failure information of Engine-ECU	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3>
U1190*2	-	Can’t receive fault detection control signal	<4D5, 4M4, 6B3>

note

*1: If P1606 is set, replace the A/T-ECU. *2: When the diagnosis codes relating to the CAN communication error are set, make sure of the vehicle equipment. When the vehicle is not equipped with the system the A/T-ECU or engine-A/T-ECU communicates to, the diagnosis code is always set. This is not abnormal.

.

[Tone13]

Thanks for the replies, Yep probably electrical. I'll replace the clock spring and then get the wiring looked at. Just saw this video which was interesting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08D_dukaZ84

[old Jack]

Thanks for the replies, Yep probably electrical. I'll replace the clock spring and then get the wiring looked at. Just saw this video which was interesting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08D_dukaZ84

Great find Tone 13
It make sense, who would have thought it was an internal loom wiring problem.
I will be checking the wiring and modifying it on my 10 year old 180,000km auto PB.
Prevention is better than cure!

OJ.

[Tazmadman]

.

[MartinDanger]

Tone13,

I had what could be the same issue although not identical. I would engage Drive and the dashboard indicator would go from N to " " (nothing) instead of D or 1. Sometimes a hard push of the gear lever would fix it. It turned out to be the cable connecting the gear selector to the gearbox.

The cable end at the gear selector end is a rose joint that fits on a metal shaft on the selector. The inner diameter of the rose joint was larger than the outer diameter of the shaft of the selector. There was supposed to be some sort of spacer or washer to make up the difference but mine had fallen off. This meant that when I selected any gear, the was some slack in the system.

As I moved the selector, the first few mm of movement didn't cause the cable to move. And for some reason, it only affected Drive, probably because the gear selector lever was right up against the stop bumper when selecting D and couldn't move any further down.

I made up a spacer from a plastic chopping board and haven't had any issues since.

It could also be AT fluid level, although with me, that caused a delay in shifting, but no jumping out of gear though. I think the challenger's markings on the AT fluid dipstick are a little off or their procedure for checking isn't quite right. I now check fluid level with the car warm, running and in Neutral (although Park is the same essentially). Noticed a significant difference in level when checked that way. Got the idea from the Hyundai i30 Auto I also drive that specifies that checking procedure.

[old Jack]

Great find Tone 13
It makes sense, who would have thought it was an internal loom wiring problem.
I will be checking the wiring and modifying it on my 10 year old 180,000km auto PB.
Prevention is better than cure!

OJ.

Well I checked the wiring harness and there was a very sharp bend on the conduit just on the chassis side of the clamp.
I removed the clamp and sure enough the taping over the split conduit had broken and the inside of the conduit was full of dirt and sand, so I removed the conduit over taping for about a 250mm length, pulled the wiring loom out cleaned and inspected the insulation for damage.
There was some minor marking on the insulation from the wires chafing against the inside of the split conduit.
Maybe the dirt and sand reduced the chafing?
I re-taped the wiring loom with 2x wraps of insulation tape, the pushed it back into the split conduit and double taped the outside of the split conduit.
I then modified the bracket that holds the clamp so rather than the clamp supporting the loom right at the bend in the wiring harness it now supports it inboard away from the bend.
Future problem averted thanks to Tone 13 for finding this problem on the internet from the chaps in the UK.

OJ.

Before, note the sharp bend in the wiring harness and the fractured over-taping on the split conduit on the chassis side of the clamp.


After 15 minutes of preventative maintenance.

[MartinDanger]

I didn't know about this common problem but also had the same issue as OJ.

I pulled apart the same bit of loom as it had also split and was full of sand. One wire was almost split in the middle meaning it would sometimes close the circuit, sometimes not. And that controlled a solenoid for the auto gearbox.

Caused gearbox to go into limp mode (3rd gear only).