5th Place in Overlander 4wd of the Year - Bias?

[geoff&vi]

Guys,

one thing that has been forgotten here. We all buy the vehicle that suits us best at the time of purchase and the reasons are varied, this includes purchase price.

In reality, no matter how impressed i was with how well the Paj performed during our Cape York trip and everytime we go four wheeling, if price was no object, i would be in a D4 in a heartbeat.

My 2c worth

cheers
Geoff

[Richo-NT]

Guys,

one thing that has been forgotten here. We all buy the vehicle that suits us best at the time of purchase and the reasons are varied, this includes purchase price.

In reality, no matter how impressed i was with how well the Paj performed during our Cape York trip and everytime we go four wheeling, if price was no object, i would be in a D4 in a heartbeat.

My 2c worth

cheers
Geoff

To be honest, after I test drove the Prado and Pajero, I first went back to Toyota with the full intention of buying a Prado... I only went back to Mitsubishi and did a deal after Mr. Toyota refused to budge on $61k for a GXL Prado and I knew I could get a GLX Pajero for $52

And you know what? I know I'm not alone... and yeah if I'm honest with myself, I do sometimes think I would have been happier spending the extra $9k. When a bloke at work bought a 4 year old 120 Prado and he took me for a spin down to get the lunches, the fact that his 4 year old car was so much smoother and more refined then my 18 month old Pajero hit me straight between the eyes...

Think of me what you will, i'm just being honest....

[geoff&vi]

Richo,

I hear ya mate. Toyota do have a better NVH package, but i, like so many others simply cannot justify the extra $7-10K changeover for the privilege. When i bought mine, Toyota wanted a changeover of $41k on my 05 TD R51 Pathfinder on a new GX Prado. I ended up with a VRX demo with 5500kms for a changeover of $30500. The extra goodies on the Paj, plus $10k in my pocket for my buildup was a no brainer!

On the flip side, my Paj out powers, out handles and out tows almost any TD Prado, so i can live with the extra noise and reduced smoothness.

For now........

I still love the Paj and it represents fantastic value for money.
cheers
Geoff

[Richo-NT]

Richo,

I hear ya mate. Toyota do have a better NVH package, but i, like so many others simply cannot justify the extra $7-10K changeover for the privilege. When i bought mine, Toyota wanted a changeover of $41k on my 05 TD R51 Pathfinder on a new GX Prado. I ended up with a VRX demo with 5500kms for a changeover of $30500. The extra goodies on the Paj, plus $10k in my pocket for my buildup was a no brainer!

On the flip side, my Paj out powers, out handles and out tows almost any TD Prado, so i can live with the extra noise and reduced smoothness.

For now........

I still love the Paj and it represents fantastic value for money.
cheers
Geoff

Yep, I agree with you on all of that, I'm simply saying that I can see how the 150 Prado, which is meant to be a lot better again then the 120 series, could win a shoot out with the Pajero

[zanks]

Haha funny how these tests create so much controversy...

Having only been in a few of these vehicles I can't comment too much from personal experience, but I wouldn't disagree with the cruisers win given the context of the test. If they spent a week in the suburbs no doubt the result would have been different.

I also think the cruiser had the advantage of it being a limited edition model with leather, power seats, sat nav, centre console cooler, general upgrade of steering wheel controls etc. Ie. Despite still being $95k or so by the time it's on the road this model is good value as far as 200 series go and this would of helped it in the value assessment.

[carl l]

I own both a SWB NW and a 200 series. I love both. Neither are particularly refined, but the ride on the short Pajero is better than the ride on the 200 so there's no way I could see how the 150 (which is just a 120 with lipstick) can have a better NVH than the Paj.

[carl l]

That is a bit silly.

Agreed. Defenders have about 12 inches of clearance stock and can be had with MTRs from the factory. Not to mention the insane angles and articulation (with swaybars removed)

[carl l]

Patrol yes, but when was the last time it won an award??

Landcruiser 200 - fundamentally different to the previous 100 series, so can legitimately claim to be a 3 year old design

Landcruiser Prado 150 - fundamentally differet to the previous 120 series, so can legitimately claim to be a 2 year old design.

Hilux has been around for a while now, but again, it's not picking up any awards! Also, its 6 year old design is still 5 years younger then Pajero....

Hey I'm a Mitsubishi fan too, but seriously, the Pajero isn't winning any awards any more because Mitsubishi are dudding us by serving up an old design year after year! It's not because the magazines are biased, if that was the case it would never have won all the awards in the past it has won!

You may like Mits but seem very anti Pajero. At least get your facts right - the 150 is built on the 120 platform, same axles and frame and engine...try crawling under one rather than reading a brochure. Nothing "fundamental" about that mate, and it's no more all new than the NT Pajero.

[geoff&vi]

I own both a SWB NW and a 200 series. I love both. Neither are particularly refined, but the ride on the short Pajero is better than the ride on the 200 so there's no way I could see how the 150 (which is just a 120 with lipstick) can have a better NVH than the Paj.

So you also own a 150 Prado? That would be the only way you could definitively say that it has better NVW than the NW Paj. We have 3 150 Prado's at work and 2 NW Paj's, all of which i drive regularly as well as my own. The Prado's are in another league with NVH than the NW Pajero, which is a step up from my NT.
cheers
Geoff

[brett]

So you also own a 150 Prado? That would be the only way you could definitively say that it has better NVW than the NW Paj. We have 3 150 Prado's at work and 2 NW Paj's, all of which i drive regularly as well as my own. The Prado's are in another league with NVH than the NW Pajero, which is a step up from my NT.
cheers
Geoff

I agree that the 150 is a 120 with lipstick. But I think we all know when talking NVH the Prado either 120 or 150 is ahead of the NT/NW. But we also know the trade off is on road dynamics and another 10K out of your pocket.

Just noticed Carl is from US/UK, to say the 200 series is not refined I'd be pretty p'd if I owned one at 90K here in AUS, they must be alot cheaper in the US. For 90K for a car I want something that is damn refined.

[carl l]

To answer some questions:

No, I don't own a Prado. I have driven a 120 with the D4D engine and it doesn't seem any less coarse than our 3.2s but I'll defer to someone who has more seat time than me.

The drivetrain on the 200 is very refined but here in the US we do not get the height adjustable suspension and just KDSS so over rough roads a fair amount of shock enters the cabin, more so than I noticed in the NW. It all feels solid though, and I knew I was buying an SRA body-on-frame vehicle...kind of like the more truck like feel than a Range Rover-type offers. The 200 replaced my GMC Duramax and has been a great buy so far offering fun both touring and in the trails where the articulation is very impressive.

Pricing in the US as regards the 200-series is not as good as with almost every other make and model of vehicle which can be had for much cheaper prices here. A strange loophole in the law means $3,000 gas guzzler tax does NOT apply to SUVs but even then after taxes and with the upgrade pack they are the thick end of 80k USD. Another negative is we only get the 5.7L petrol and are not offered the 4.5TTD. Plus side is that no vehicle matches their residuals especially as there are so few sold here.

To summarize I really like both the shortie Pajero and 200. For anyone interested, easily the worst vehicle I've owned was the second gen Toyota Tundra pickup. Awful flex where the bed meets the cab totally dominated positive feelings about the brakes and drivetrain. Thankfully, the strengthened frame of the 200 has no such issues as otherwise I was done with Toy.

[geoff&vi]

I agree that the 150 is a 120 with lipstick. But I think we all know when talking NVH the Prado either 120 or 150 is ahead of the NT/NW. But we also know the trade off is on road dynamics and another 10K out of your pocket.

Just noticed Carl is from US/UK, to say the 200 series is not refined I'd be pretty p'd if I owned one at 90K here in AUS, they must be alot cheaper in the US. For 90K for a car I want something that is damn refined.

x2

cheers
Geoff

[carl l]

x2

cheers
Geoff

Again, to make clear I concede the NVH point. I was getting my wires somewhat crossed with that acronym and on-road dynamics.

[AJC]

Nah, not bias.

4wd of the year is for new releases / significant updates. Paj is long in the tooth and i'm suprised the NW qualified the Paj as a new release / significant update; seems to me it is only a tart up of the NT.

The Paj would always struggle against new models (Jeep) or significant updates of older patforms (Prado 120 to 150, Disco 3 to Disco 4).

OL has always scored the Paj at top or close to top in its Best 4wd review - annual assessment of what's on the market which allows for bang for buck value to account for some of the issues with the dated design, like lower NVH level's compared to newer designs.

That said, it always seems to me that Toyo gets good wraps from the press regardless of the product - in some case warranted, others not (ie. full size wagon - LC 200 over Patrol anyday; medium wagon - Prado, Disco 4, Pajero, Pathfinder, Challenger, Grand Cherokee...pros and cons for all; utes - Hilux, Triton, Ranger/ Bt50, Navara, Amarok, Colarado/IMax...again, pros and cons for all, Hilux definatley falling behind Ranger/ Bt50 and Amarok, Triton still the only one with super-select constant 4wd which for mine is a big plus rarely acknowledged; workhorse wagons / utes / troop carriers - Defender, LC 70 series, Patrol, Wragler - all have pluses and minuses but woodies all round for the LC 70s).

[Pickle]

The NW really isn't a bad car but just an upgraded NT. Admittedly I was a tad dissapointed when I found out the specs before I ventured out to the Overlander gig. I was hoping for a few technical upgrades, more so the MMCS (digital radio etc). Certainly is a quieter vehicle than the NT but still drives the same.
I feel the Prado certainly would have done better if we had the deisel version as asked. The Prado is just that bit more refined than the Paj, and you can certainly feel the difference off road.
The Landcruiser 200 is a fantastic all round vehicle. It just does everything with ease and doesn't feel like your driving a near 3 ton vehicle. As for dollar value it killed it for me as top pick.
The Disco 4 was my top knotch drive, it was better value for money than the cruiser and nearly as refined.
So no the Paj was not my top pick as a judge. I voted with my head and not my heart. There was so much technology on those vehicles by rights none of them belonged there except the 110 Defender. Still a simple vehicle to drive and operate but damned if I could drive (ergonomics) that thing more than a few hours at a time.
Dave