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PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 Covering 2.5 HP diesel

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  #31  
Old 22-10-17
Sjb-85 Sjb-85 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ent View Post
I have to chuckle at times. Checked out if Dobinsons MRR were available for a Challenger. Was told no they are only intended for real 4x4s. Which strangely they consider a Triton to be a real 4x4, and the original Pajero as well.

What is a Challenger? Err? Triton chassis back to the rear door, then rear end following the design of the first coil sprung Pajeros to the point the springs are the same. Comes standard with rear diff lock might be a hint as well. Also, the PB/PC was targeted at countries like India, Russia, Africa and rather surprisingly made it to Australia. Yeap, definitely a shopping trolley to pick up the groceries in Siberia

Those pesky series one Landrovers must be shopping trolleys as well as they used the motor out of a a Rover car which we all know are luxury town cars. Yeap, Toyotas built the Snowy, err maybe one or two were used the vast bulk of 4x4s were Landrover. Heck, never let facts stand in the way of prejudice
You can definitely get the MRR's for the challenger! RMX has them on his
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  #32  
Old 22-10-17
Sjb-85 Sjb-85 is offline
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https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=49398
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  #33  
Old 24-10-17
Ent Ent is offline
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Interesting read. Could explain the rather weird conversation where the bloke from Dobinson was trying to convince me that you need to drive to the conditions, the Challenger was merely a shopping trolley, etc, etc. Even brought in the issue of gay law reform? WTF that has do with it? I wonder if they have really fixed the problem?

Frankly, outside the absolutely brilliant customer service from Kings Springs I have found suspension places hard work. Drummond are ok. Others rarely return calls. Ask some simple questions and suddenly they get defensive, etc. People appear to have spent a lot on suspension upgrades with very mixed results. Friend had Ironman for his Suzuki and both fronts failed at 15,000kms of road use. The camber adjusting bolt broke on the torquing up sequence second time around, and the springs lost height quicker than anyone could believe. On the Suzuki forum the rave reviews have been replaced with a dark cloud of anger and Ironman are claiming a bad batch or new improved ones are now out. The replacement springs from another company were the wrong ones, etc. He finally got a setup that worked ok fully loaded but terrible at light weight. Ok that is a big ask and luckily for me the Challenger is quite tolerant to spring rates.

My first set of rear springs from a rival to Kings were no where near claimed height. Another rival when asked for info suddenly decided nothing was suitable as I was too difficult. Many will not put claims in emails. People have found front droop stops removed which means CVs are likely to fail. The reason is the front has been raised too high.

What I understand of suspension very few places, if any, revalve to suit the springs. You simply can not expect any non adjustable dampener to get optimum performance unless it is set for the appropriate valve rate for the spring. Say factory 160-220 versus heavy duty 250-300. A seller of suspension had a recommend dampener that is valved for a mid range Kings spring so likely this combination would work very well. They were honest when I asked then re my heavier rear spring saying it would work but not be of a standard that they would be happy to sell, and be better to revalve the Bilsteins with a caveat to do a lot of research on the placing doing this as more than a few are hopeless at it.

I will likely get new Bilsteins revalved for the higher rear spring rates as at 80,000kms the old ones would likely need a rebuild to make the revalving sensible option.

I get the feeling once I do this I will be rewarded with an excellent riding and handling vehicle as the Bilsteins when younger did a reasonable job. Been a lot of hard work not to mention expensive.
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2014 PC Challenger, manual, factory tow-bar, factory front diff protector, TJM inter-cooler plate, Bushskinz manual transmission protection plate, ProRack S16 roof racks, front elocker, Drummond Motor Sport front struts, custom 16mm King rear springs with Bilstein Dampeners, Buzz Rack Runner 3 bike platform, Eclipse Nav head unit, GME TX3800BW UHF, 16x8 CSA Raptor rims, 265/75R16 Maxxis MT-762, orToyo AT/2 265/70R16 Triton rims, BFGoodrich 235/85/R16 Triton rims, or Factory tyres and rims.
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  #34  
Old 24-10-17
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DrewXT DrewXT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ent View Post
Interesting read. Could explain the rather weird conversation where the bloke from Dobinson was trying to convince me that you need to drive to the conditions, the Challenger was merely a shopping trolley, etc, etc. Even brought in the issue of gay law reform? WTF that has do with it? I wonder if they have really fixed the problem?

Frankly, outside the absolutely brilliant customer service from Kings Springs I have found suspension places hard work. Drummond are ok. Others rarely return calls. Ask some simple questions and suddenly they get defensive, etc. People appear to have spent a lot on suspension upgrades with very mixed results. Friend had Ironman for his Suzuki and both fronts failed at 15,000kms of road use. The camber adjusting bolt broke on the torquing up sequence second time around, and the springs lost height quicker than anyone could believe. On the Suzuki forum the rave reviews have been replaced with a dark cloud of anger and Ironman are claiming a bad batch or new improved ones are now out. The replacement springs from another company were the wrong ones, etc. He finally got a setup that worked ok fully loaded but terrible at light weight. Ok that is a big ask and luckily for me the Challenger is quite tolerant to spring rates.

My first set of rear springs from a rival to Kings were no where near claimed height. Another rival when asked for info suddenly decided nothing was suitable as I was too difficult. Many will not put claims in emails. People have found front droop stops removed which means CVs are likely to fail. The reason is the front has been raised too high.

What I understand of suspension very few places, if any, revalve to suit the springs. You simply can not expect any non adjustable dampener to get optimum performance unless it is set for the appropriate valve rate for the spring. Say factory 160-220 versus heavy duty 250-300. A seller of suspension had a recommend dampener that is valved for a mid range Kings spring so likely this combination would work very well. They were honest when I asked then re my heavier rear spring saying it would work but not be of a standard that they would be happy to sell, and be better to revalve the Bilsteins with a caveat to do a lot of research on the placing doing this as more than a few are hopeless at it.

I will likely get new Bilsteins revalved for the higher rear spring rates as at 80,000kms the old ones would likely need a rebuild to make the revalving sensible option.

I get the feeling once I do this I will be rewarded with an excellent riding and handling vehicle as the Bilsteins when younger did a reasonable job. Been a lot of hard work not to mention expensive.
It can be a bit of a minefield getting good info for sure.

Billies are between $150-250 to get rebuilt depending on the shock or strut, so is often a much better option, as you end up with a new shock/strut after the rebuild.

For my money, they're still the best aftermarket shock out there in a reasonable price bracket

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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  #35  
Old 06-11-17
Flying Flying is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ent View Post
I will give them a ring.

It appears that some of the bigger bore dampeners have clearance issues on the Challenger. Koni Netherlands has made it clear that while their dampeners might fit they should not be used on the rear of the Challenger as the required clearance is not there. Interesting, as they are still listed on many websites as an option. I respect Koni for their upfront honesty but it does rule out an excellent dampener.
Any idea if the same applies to the Pajero Sport Ent? I emailed a Koni dealer but nothing on the list for the PS...
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  #36  
Old 08-11-17
Ent Ent is offline
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I am tempted to think that the PS rear end is the same as the PB/PC. Ask the local dealer if the part number for the springs is the same.

Your best option might be Bilstein rears. But be aware they are on the PB/PC longer than standard so could strain the brake and rear diff lines. I had to lengthen all my lines.

No, Koni are a no show due to their greater bore. Plenty have fitted them with no issue but occassionly some knock. Probably all the rear bushes need to be in top class order to avoid this.

You will likely have a year or two delay before after market places get their mind around the PS. Also, the PS will need to exhibit better sales than its previous models to get noticed.
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2014 PC Challenger, manual, factory tow-bar, factory front diff protector, TJM inter-cooler plate, Bushskinz manual transmission protection plate, ProRack S16 roof racks, front elocker, Drummond Motor Sport front struts, custom 16mm King rear springs with Bilstein Dampeners, Buzz Rack Runner 3 bike platform, Eclipse Nav head unit, GME TX3800BW UHF, 16x8 CSA Raptor rims, 265/75R16 Maxxis MT-762, orToyo AT/2 265/70R16 Triton rims, BFGoodrich 235/85/R16 Triton rims, or Factory tyres and rims.
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  #37  
Old 08-11-17
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PB/PC Challenger rear coils and shockers are a direct fit onto the Pajero Sport.
I measured this up a few years ago with "Cookie Monster" and his PS, and there is a thread on it in the PS sub-forum.

OJ.
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  #38  
Old 09-11-17
Flying Flying is offline
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Thanks for the replies... I really like the sound of your sales job on the DMS front end you have Ent, sounds like the back is the problem same as the challenger... It seems people have had troubles with the Bilsteins and OJ seems to want to change his setup away from them (apologies if I have misinterpreted that)...
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  #39  
Old 09-11-17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying View Post
Thanks for the replies... I really like the sound of your sales job on the DMS front end you have Ent, sounds like the back is the problem same as the challenger... It seems people have had troubles with the Bilsteins and OJ seems to want to change his setup away from them (apologies if I have misinterpreted that)...
Ent's front suspension cost more than most people spend on both front and rear suspensions fitted but the result is apparently impressive.

I have had problems with Bilsteins at the front, 3 strut failures in under 70,000kms. I believe the problem is the Bilstein struts are not compatible with the Lovells coils, they are not ground flat at the top and the bottom pigtail end is the wrong pitch for the Bilstein strut seat. The result is the strut is preloaded to one side, and this flexes the strut shaft, chops out the seal and scores the one side of the shaft. Other Challenger owners have Bilstein/Kings combo and have had no issues, some installs have in excess of 130,000kms without issue. My current options are Bilstein/King, Oztec/King or Terrain Tamer Smart coils and pro shocks. Undecided at the moment.

My rear Bilsteins have done over 85,000 kms with 3 different sets of Lovells rear coils, all of it 2450kg to 2860kg and about 1/3 off the bitumen so I can not fault the Bilsteins on the rear.

My plans for a CSR have been pushed back another year but I was thinking of redoing the suspension before this trip.

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT245/75/16, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
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  #40  
Old 09-11-17
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About 150k on bilsteins, no issues but standard coils front (no bar) kings rear no rear sway bar. About 60/40 on/offroad. Some like a firmer ride/less body roll etc, but I'm happy with a more subtle ride offroad. Unfortunately there is no one fits all suspension packages.
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