Sand recovery techniques

[littleriver]

Just google searched sand tires
these are the tread paterns that it came up with

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sand+tires&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PuPlUrqPKoTxkQWAj4GADw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=639

[Bogger]

Just google searched sand tires
these are the tread paterns that it came up with

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s...w=1152&bih=639

Fine if your running a baja buggy .................. on a Paj would be a nice ride getting there ................ not

[Nik]

With tyres I think it's more to do with tyre pressure and footprint than the specific tread in sand. Some do seem to work better than others and there's nothing wrong with HT tyres in sand, but I've seen guys with mud tyres get tons of traction in sand. I don't subscribe to the bagging out theory with passenger construction tyres. From what I've seen LT tyres don't bag out, so the tyres stretches out length wise giving you more of the tyre with the tread on the ground. If it bags out sideways the difference in the amount of rubber on the ground is less than the amount of rubber you get from getting more length on the ground. I think someone posted a thread demonstrating this a while ago, might have been OldJack.

On another note, I've got some Bushranger Xtrax II rubber tracks (rubber alternative to Maxxtrax). I've carried them a lot and only used them once. Long story, but we basically ended up driving down a section we didn't want to drive down and then couldn't get out. There was a very steep sandy section that we needed to drive up. I tried a couple of times but just got to a certain point and started spinning. I dug out the base to lessen the approach angle which let me hit it with a bit more speed and put the Xtrax down on the slope about midway up. I flew up the slope that time with virtually no wheel spin at all. The Xtrax stayed where they were on the slope and provided plenty of traction on the steep section. I don't know how they would have compared to maxxtrax, but they worked pretty well in that situation.

It's actually something I'm curious about, we've got a forum trip down south in Feb that I might see if one of the guys with maxxxtrax is keen to give them a try out next to each other and see how they go. The Xtrax are much easier to carry as they fold up. Plus you can use them folded up in front of rocks or a big incline to lessen the approach/departure angle as well.

Also someone mentioned about digging a hole when you come to a stop in sand. Something I was taught was to not break when coming to a stop. Just take it out of gear and let it coast to a stop. Breaking will build up a bit of a 'bow wave' in front of the tyres that you'll have to climb over when you move off.

[old Jack]

Nik, footprint length link;

http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=30236

cheers, old Jack.

[littleriver]

Maxtrax recovery in sand with a Challenger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAUlH1sZrs0

[old Jack]

Maxtrax recovery in sand with a Challenger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAUlH1sZrs0

I thought the recommended location for Maxtrax was under front wheels if going forward and rear wheels if going backwards, reason being they lift the belly clear and get you moving and then the next set of tyres get the advantage of the Maxtrax's in both a lift and good traction to get you well and truly clear of the bog.

This a recovery we did down at Beachport, from post 8.

http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/oldJack61/media/IMG_1627_zps919caed2.mp4.html

cheers, old Jack.

[Bogger]

Got to agree Jack especially given the front will pull you out better than the back will push you ................. or bury the bum more as it does so.
Makes it look easy in the vid and once again shows it's all about technique and beats the hell out of digging.

[littleriver]

I thought the recommended location for Maxtrax was under front wheels if going forward and rear wheels if going backwards, reason being they lift the belly clear and get you moving and then the next set of tyres get the advantage of the Maxtrax's in both a lift and good traction to get you well and truly clear of the bog.

This a recovery we did down at Beachport, from post 8.

http://s1175.photobucket.com/user/oldJack61/media/IMG_1627_zps919caed2.mp4.html

cheers, old Jack.

I totally agree with you OJ
(just wanted to put up someone actually using the trax)
goes to show how good some of the experts are ;-)

[Not Withstanding]

I've used the rubber xtrax in muddy ruts combined with jacking and they provided some good grip. Can see that they wouldn't provide as much lift in sand as the maxtrax.

[Silver Streak]

I'd like to thank Old Jack again for his Sand Driving 101 course at Peake here in SA, the group of us learnt heaps about many aspects of sand driving.
Here I am bellied out near the top of the dune, so we decided to back out down the dune and have another go later. In this case we tried to wedge the Maxtrax under the rear tyres, but because digging away the soft sand was a futile cause, as each shovel full of sand was immediately replaced with sand just flowing back around the tyres. So Old Jack pulled out his secret weapon of an old 1.8t Toyota screw-jack he had, and a good lump of plywood strong enough to easily support the vehicles weight. It only took a matter of 30 seconds per wheel to jack the wheel up high enough to get the Maxtrax under enough to get a grip. The rest was easy, the Maxtrax worked a treat and I backed back down this substantial dune, with Paj in reverse gear, feathering the accelerator, and left foot braking. Not a problem at all. All good recovery training.

[old Jack]

Thanks for the kind words Tony, the screw jack I have is a Toyota 1800kg and has a 2 stage lift so it goes from about 190mm to 420mm ($50 from the wreckers and then extend the crank handle by about 500mm). Isuzu also do them and in my opinion it is a safer jack to use than a hydraulic jack.

Maxtrax's work well but they must have weight on them so it you are bellied out then you either have to dig out or jack up, in soft sand the jack up option is always the quickest and most effective. Also important is once the Maxtrax is under the wheel, lift the track up as high as possible and back fill with sand. Wheel spin is the quickest way to destroy a recovery track so make sure you are in low range and ease the power on very slowly, in an auto it is best to ride the brake with your left foot, particularly if you have a heavy right foot (like Tony does, actually I think it is the "chip" he is running and how quickly the engine comes on boost). In a manual the application of the handbrake then ease it off as the engine starts to labour, this is much better than slipping the clutch.

cheers, old Jack.

[Silver Streak]

"I think it's the chip he is running? "....lol. Sorry Old Jack, the only chip I have is in my head, which is obviously very "chipped" maybe??
But I did back down nice slow..... as trained!! and no heavy right boot!!

[m_and_m]

Sand recovery at Beachport SA

Sand Recovery- what could I have done better?

Had the pleasure of a holiday at Robe over Easter and took the family for a drive down the dunes/beaches near Beachport. Just ourselves...no other cars.

Misses was navigating using satellite imagery on the iPad and pointed me onto a section of beach which looked soft. It was clear people didn't use this section of beach much, but though we'd give it a go...bad idea.

I've heard about soft sand at Robe/Beachport, but did appreciate how soft until I was stuck in it!!!

Here's what I did:

Recovery attempt 1
Tried reversing slowly to pack down a ramp...no movement. Tyres were at already at 13 psi. Pulled out the shovel and dug away from under car and in front of all tryres. Put down the 4xTREDs (same as MAXTRAXs). Gentle accl. and I was off....well, for about 15 meters and then down again. grrr.

Recovery attempt 2
Same as above ....same result..(no surprise there in hindsight)
but now closer to waves.

Recovery attempt 3 (picture below)
Hmmm...gotta get it right this time.
Dropped tyres to 10psi..dug out and 4 TREDs again.

Success - nicely onto the sand again ....until I needed to get off the beach, pointed car up, couldn't see an exit track, and had to stop on a slope...

Recovery attempt 4 (other pics below)
Well above high tide mark now... Time to think..
Tried the TREDs again and got about 2 meters.

Recovery attempt 5
Winch...no trees in sight...need a sand anchor.
Here's where I got a bit lazy. Didn't feel like taking off the spare wheel and digging such a big hole, so I thought about it and decided to try the TREDs as an anchor.
Dug a hole/trench about 600mm deep, put 2 TREDs together and hooked winch rope around the middle off them. Dropped them in the trench so they were vertical. Didn't bury them. Theory was the cable would dig into the sand and the TREDs would act like a plough...but not move.
Dug around wheels again and used remaining 2 TREDs on front wheels.
Started winching and driving...got another 2 meters, and the TREDs slowly pulled up and out the trench. Drat!

Recovery attempts 6,7..maybe 8..lost count.
Gave up on winching. Used 4 TREDs again..and again...and got it out.

Kids had a great play on the beach for about 45 mins.

My first question, "Next time I'm confronted with the same self-recovery situation, what advice can you offer to do it better?"

My thoughts: Drop pressures even lower than 10psi..maybe 8psi. Spend more effort on a proper sand anchor...like spare wheel etc. or a product like this http://www.lan-cor.com/vehicle-recovery-in-action


2nd question, "Has anyone successfully used MAXTRAX/TREDs as a sand anchor? In hindsight, I think it can work, but dig the trench a bit deeper and place flat in hole (not vertical), and bury them properly.

pics attached for entertainment purposes

[Onslow]

I have the Lancor land anchor and Nik and I will be trialling it when we get a chance - will let you know the results.

I was also going to trial the Treds as an anchor but you beat me to it. They would need to be dug in well and a trench dug for the winch line - might try that on our test day too.

On our recent forum trip down south I ran 12psi and couldn't get up some sand hills. Once dropped down to 10psi it went where I pointed it! I think everyone else found the same too - the 2psi drop made a huge difference.

[old Jack]

m and m, I can see from the footprints in the sand and the wind ripples on the mounds that this is very soft sand (just imagine it on a hot day in the middle of summer!)

Well done, you kept a cool head and got yourself out.
Going to 8 psi "may" have kept you moving but that is a BIG "may".
I would be laying your Treds out end to end under the front wheels only and then use in either the "hare or the tortoise" methods, the hare method is to give it a "few berries" once your are on the Treds and see how far you can get before sinking again, this is best used if you are racing an incoming tide. The tortoise method is easiest if there are 3 adults, 2 is slower and solo is hard slow work, basically you drive up on to the first Tread and then on to the next Tred, stop in the middle of the second Tread, in neutral & hand brake ON, remove the Tred from behind the wheel and place in front of the Tred you are parked on, place the edge of the Tread under the front edge of the Tred the tyres are on, drive 1 metre, stop and repeat process. This is slow but it will work in the softest sand.

Treds as sand anchors, yes this will work but you need to;
1. Have the Treds at about 30 degrees off vertical so when they move they drive downwards.
2. Treds X2 should be used so the underside is to the winch, and a 4 rope lanyard so the pull is central but the attachments is peripheral.

Remember always low first and easy on the power until you are and out.

cheers, old Jack.