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  • old Jack
    Regular
    • Jun 2011
    • 11521
    • Adelaide, South Australia.

    #16
    When you selected 4Hlc had the centre diff light stopped flashing and stayed illuminated BEFORE you selected ASC OFF and where you doing under 40kph?
    Was the ASC OFF light illuminated? It may be possible that if the centre diff lock signal had not been confirmed, the ASC OFF selection may not have been registered by the ASCTC ECU, just a theory.

    In sand when driving an auto Pajero (NW) I always suggest the use of 4Llc as this automatically turns ASC off, and gives you low reverse on tap if required. Low second is equivalent to high first and if you wish you can use low second to start off. When dune climbing I prefer to use the sports mode so the trans does not change up a gear when I do not want it to.

    Sorry I can not explain the hard brake pedal, Brake Assist only activates when you are applying the brakes and the ABS is activating.

    cheers, old Jack.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

    Comment

    • Kumabear
      Valued Member
      • Sep 2013
      • 696
      • Sydney, Macarther Region

      #17
      If the stability control was still on, which it sounds like it was it would explain the hard break pedal as it also pumps the breaks on top of controlling engine output.

      Long story short.

      1. Do not turn off traction control via some hack (cant turn it off normally) it is your friend in virtually all situations ignore anyone who tells you otherwise

      2. Turn off the ASC (active stability/skid control) via the button near your left knee and confirm orange light on dash lights up this will stop the car losing momentum on the dunes/mud/lose rock/steps tho in these situations I would suggest you be in 4LLC which disables it automatically and gives you far more control of the vehicle. Also note that ASC can not be disabled if traveling >40km/h and it will automatically come back on at I think 100km/h but you should turn it back on once you are anywhere >60km/h if not on sand IMO.

      3. Do not touch the ABS system it is not relevant to your momentum issues and is an important safety feature only relevant to helping you to stop the vehicle and prevent lockup under breaking which is super important in an off road situation

      A lot of uninformed people (mostly driving older vehicles) will tell you the above is not correct and that all things electronic are bad they are 100% wrong at least in terms of the above systems, If you want to successfully use the Pajero in an off road setting they are needed and you must understand how they work and how to use them.

      (note this is only my opinion and experience not meaning to step on peoples toes or ideas)

      Regards
      Kuma
      2011 MY12 NW Pajero GL (White)

      Factory Rear Diff lock | Modded Traction Control | Hankook RT03 MT LT265/70/17 | Uniden 7760nb UHF | Opposite Lock 3 Loop steel bar with fog lights |Runva EXW12000 | Bushskinz plates and sliders |Ultimate Suspension true 50mm Lift (above factory trim)

      Wishlist:

      Comment

      • P4J3R0
        Valued Member
        • Jun 2013
        • 818
        • Brisbane

        #18
        I find the systems in the paj are great in every situation except 2.

        Firstly in the sand driving in 4H and having to turn the ASC off every time I restart the car is a pain, a toggle switch that I could flick for 'sand' would be better.

        Secondly in the mud the ASC & TC stop you from doing what you need to do to get out. Spinning the wheels clears mud allowing them to grip again and keep cleaning themselves and re gripping.
        NS Pajero, with stuff.

        Comment

        • outback_dreamer
          Member
          • May 2012
          • 57
          • Perth

          #19
          Brakes pumped with ASC off

          Originally posted by old Jack View Post
          When you selected 4Hlc had the centre diff light stopped flashing and stayed illuminated BEFORE you selected ASC OFF and where you doing under 40kph?
          Was the ASC OFF light illuminated? It may be possible that if the centre diff lock signal had not been confirmed, the ASC OFF selection may not have been registered by the ASCTC ECU, just a theory.

          In sand when driving an auto Pajero (NW) I always suggest the use of 4Llc as this automatically turns ASC off, and gives you low reverse on tap if required. Low second is equivalent to high first and if you wish you can use low second to start off. When dune climbing I prefer to use the sports mode so the trans does not change up a gear when I do not want it to.

          Sorry I can not explain the hard brake pedal, Brake Assist only activates when you are applying the brakes and the ABS is activating.

          cheers, old Jack.
          Hi Jack
          Thanks for the feedback. I have experienced this a number of times. I will ask it to be checked when i take it for service. The centre diff was definitely locked with the green light on and the ASC select off. I will take a little more notes next time I am on the dunes.
          Regards
          Pajero MW, Cooper Discoverer A/T3, Rhino roof Rack, Rhino Crossbars, Rhino SunSeeker2, RedArc BCDC1220, ICOM 440N radio, ARB bulbar

          Comment

          • outback_dreamer
            Member
            • May 2012
            • 57
            • Perth

            #20
            Turn off ASC

            Originally posted by Kumabear View Post
            If the stability control was still on, which it sounds like it was it would explain the hard break pedal as it also pumps the breaks on top of controlling engine output.

            Long story short.

            1. Do not turn off traction control via some hack (cant turn it off normally) it is your friend in virtually all situations ignore anyone who tells you otherwise

            2. Turn off the ASC (active stability/skid control) via the button near your left knee and confirm orange light on dash lights up this will stop the car losing momentum on the dunes/mud/lose rock/steps tho in these situations I would suggest you be in 4LLC which disables it automatically and gives you far more control of the vehicle. Also note that ASC can not be disabled if traveling >40km/h and it will automatically come back on at I think 100km/h but you should turn it back on once you are anywhere >60km/h if not on sand IMO.

            3. Do not touch the ABS system it is not relevant to your momentum issues and is an important safety feature only relevant to helping you to stop the vehicle and prevent lockup under breaking which is super important in an off road situation

            A lot of uninformed people (mostly driving older vehicles) will tell you the above is not correct and that all things electronic are bad they are 100% wrong at least in terms of the above systems, If you want to successfully use the Pajero in an off road setting they are needed and you must understand how they work and how to use them.

            (note this is only my opinion and experience not meaning to step on peoples toes or ideas)

            Regards
            Kuma
            Thanks Kuma
            I only use the button at my left knee. I do not have a lot off experience off road and will take a little more note of what is happening when I select the ASC off button. In future I will drop to low range to see whether I experience difference in response.

            Regards
            Pajero MW, Cooper Discoverer A/T3, Rhino roof Rack, Rhino Crossbars, Rhino SunSeeker2, RedArc BCDC1220, ICOM 440N radio, ARB bulbar

            Comment

            • Kumabear
              Valued Member
              • Sep 2013
              • 696
              • Sydney, Macarther Region

              #21
              Originally posted by Slo78u View Post
              I find the systems in the paj are great in every situation except 2.

              Firstly in the sand driving in 4H and having to turn the ASC off every time I restart the car is a pain, a toggle switch that I could flick for 'sand' would be better.

              Secondly in the mud the ASC & TC stop you from doing what you need to do to get out. Spinning the wheels clears mud allowing them to grip again and keep cleaning themselves and re gripping.
              Both are great points, tho I personally still use 4hlc/4llc on sand below I've linked an interesting article on when/when not to lock the center dif makes some good points on sand and is why I now lock it

              Life's too short for boring cars. 4X4s, sportscars, towing, camp, tech and more.


              Regarding the mud that is pretty much the one time you want all the electronics off and is the reason I put a switch in to my traction control mod (allows me to selectively turn on the traction control when factory rear locker is engaged) by leaving the switch off I can lock the rear dif turn all the electronic aids off and spin wheels to my hearts content
              2011 MY12 NW Pajero GL (White)

              Factory Rear Diff lock | Modded Traction Control | Hankook RT03 MT LT265/70/17 | Uniden 7760nb UHF | Opposite Lock 3 Loop steel bar with fog lights |Runva EXW12000 | Bushskinz plates and sliders |Ultimate Suspension true 50mm Lift (above factory trim)

              Wishlist:

              Comment

              • outback_dreamer
                Member
                • May 2012
                • 57
                • Perth

                #22
                Rear diff lock

                Originally posted by Kumabear View Post
                Both are great points, tho I personally still use 4hlc/4llc on sand below I've linked an interesting article on when/when not to lock the center dif makes some good points on sand and is why I now lock it

                Life's too short for boring cars. 4X4s, sportscars, towing, camp, tech and more.


                Regarding the mud that is pretty much the one time you want all the electronics off and is the reason I put a switch in to my traction control mod (allows me to selectively turn on the traction control when factory rear locker is engaged) by leaving the switch off I can lock the rear dif turn all the electronic aids off and spin wheels to my hearts content
                Hi
                My Pajero do not have the factory rear diff lock. i use the vehicle on sand most of the time. Do you think it is worth while to fit something like the ARB rear diff lock?
                Regards
                Pajero MW, Cooper Discoverer A/T3, Rhino roof Rack, Rhino Crossbars, Rhino SunSeeker2, RedArc BCDC1220, ICOM 440N radio, ARB bulbar

                Comment

                • Kumabear
                  Valued Member
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 696
                  • Sydney, Macarther Region

                  #23
                  I think you will find that, as long as you remember to deflate your tires and turn off ASC, the Pajero even without a rear dif lock is very very good in the sand.

                  The dif lock is most useful in situations where you are actually picking up wheels off the ground, like going through wombat holes or up/down rocky and rutted hills or steps.

                  The important thing is to recognise that ASC (stability control) is NOT "traction control".

                  ASC will impede your progress and cause the vechicle to bog down/cut engine power as soon as you have any wheel slip/spin

                  Traction control will actually aid your momentum because it only breaks the wheel/wheels that do not have traction thus sending the power to the wheels that do have traction and can actually keep you moving.

                  Spinning wheels without traction control would quickly dig in and kill any momentum you had as with open difs power is sent out the wheel with the least traction ( the spinning one)

                  Obviously a locked dif would be better but I would not exactly consider it money well spent IF you are mostly driving on sand.
                  2011 MY12 NW Pajero GL (White)

                  Factory Rear Diff lock | Modded Traction Control | Hankook RT03 MT LT265/70/17 | Uniden 7760nb UHF | Opposite Lock 3 Loop steel bar with fog lights |Runva EXW12000 | Bushskinz plates and sliders |Ultimate Suspension true 50mm Lift (above factory trim)

                  Wishlist:

                  Comment

                  • outback_dreamer
                    Member
                    • May 2012
                    • 57
                    • Perth

                    #24
                    Rear Dodd lock

                    Thanks for the advice.

                    Regards
                    Pajero MW, Cooper Discoverer A/T3, Rhino roof Rack, Rhino Crossbars, Rhino SunSeeker2, RedArc BCDC1220, ICOM 440N radio, ARB bulbar

                    Comment

                    • Keithyv
                      Valued Member
                      • May 2018
                      • 1356
                      • Perth

                      #25
                      Bringing an old thread back to life, I've been trying to make up a spreadsheet to document the interaction between the ATSC switch, rear diff lock and all the drive modes. The table provided in this thread explains it all!

                      To me, an easy way to remember some of the modes is like this:

                      RDL on - means the rear wheels are 'locked' together. Seeing as RDL can't be engaged unless you also have the centre diff locked, this means that whenever you have the RDL engaged, ABS and all traction control is disabled (look at the table!)

                      If you use any locked centre diff modes ABS will always be disabled. < EDIT: WRONG!
                      Last edited by Keithyv; 29-05-18, 05:22 PM. Reason: mistake
                      2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
                      MM Lockup mate. King KCRS-35 rear springs. Monroe Gas Magnum TDT rear shocks. 3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors and rear cargo area. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear (2nd row) USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with LED light bar. Provent catch can. LED interior lights. Rear cargo area twin Andersons and Merit socket. Anderson plug in rear bumper. 6 channel TPMS.

                      Comment

                      • dhula
                        Valued Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 1196
                        • South of Perth

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Keithyv View Post
                        ...................If you use any locked centre diff modes ABS will always be disabled.

                        ABS is active at all times except when RDL is turned on
                        2010 NT Activ, DiD+lazy shift. Bushskins+Boo's, Kings springs+Monroe shocks+Firestone Airbags, MM towbar, MM nudgebar.
                        2006 KJ Cherokee, CRD+lazy shift. Ironman springs and OME shocks, MoPar skids.

                        Comment

                        • Keithyv
                          Valued Member
                          • May 2018
                          • 1356
                          • Perth

                          #28
                          Originally posted by vladguan View Post
                          And if you want traction control to be turned on when RDL is on and also have the ability to turn it off whenever, you need my patch loom.


                          https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=54470
                          ^What 'flavour' of TC is on with this hack /loom? Brake control or Engine control?
                          2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
                          MM Lockup mate. King KCRS-35 rear springs. Monroe Gas Magnum TDT rear shocks. 3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors and rear cargo area. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear (2nd row) USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with LED light bar. Provent catch can. LED interior lights. Rear cargo area twin Andersons and Merit socket. Anderson plug in rear bumper. 6 channel TPMS.

                          Comment

                          • Keithyv
                            Valued Member
                            • May 2018
                            • 1356
                            • Perth

                            #29
                            Originally posted by dhula View Post
                            ABS is active at all times except when RDL is turned on
                            You are correct, I confused myself trying to get my head around the table!
                            Maybe what I was thinking was If you use any locked centre diff mode then Engine Control is always disabled.
                            2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
                            MM Lockup mate. King KCRS-35 rear springs. Monroe Gas Magnum TDT rear shocks. 3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors and rear cargo area. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear (2nd row) USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with LED light bar. Provent catch can. LED interior lights. Rear cargo area twin Andersons and Merit socket. Anderson plug in rear bumper. 6 channel TPMS.

                            Comment

                            • vladguan
                              Valued Member
                              • Mar 2015
                              • 2960
                              • Adelaide

                              #30
                              Originally posted by Keithyv View Post
                              ^What 'flavour' of TC is on with this hack /loom? Brake control or Engine control?



                              Factory. It tricks the ASTC into believing the RDL is on when it is off (to turn TC off) and believe it is off when it is on (to turn TC on).
                              Please call me Vlad.
                              -----------------------
                              MY15 NX GLS - SPV EGR; Donaldson filter; Front sensors; Compass; DEI506T and DEI507M; LED interior and exterior lights; Blue LED step lights; 3T tow bar; 20% front & clear tint over privacy windows; Chrome handle protectors; 3x Bushskinz guards; Nudge bar; Hella Sharptones; Dual alarm horns; STEDI lightbar; TC mod loom; Paddles; ProVent 200; Dobinsons springs and MRR shocks; Bonnet struts; OCAM awning; Rear work light; Air compressor. TBD - UHF.

                              Comment

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