Thought I would get the Auto gbox serviced....

[Tiger_DFT]

Hi All,

As I'm about to be towing my Van around and car has 150,000K I thought I would get auto box fluid changed as per Mitsi recommendation. They stated that whilst gearbox is "sealed" it should have fluid changed every 90K....especially if towing....my car has only had towbar for last 10K.

They implied (or maybe I assumed) that ALL gearbox fluid would be replaced....ie out with ALL of the old and in with the new. NO this isn't what happens!

They connect up to their Mitsi computer, it dictates how much needs to be changed....in my case 4.5 litres. Now I have 4.5 litres of old fluid mixed in with 4.5 litres of really expensive...only available from Mitsi....new fluid.

This irks me somewhat.

If I had a Mitsubishi service computer I would have done it myself (and replaced all the fluid). I see not much sense in mixing old and new.

Dissapointed once again! Maybe, I'm stuck in the "old" way of doing things too much.

And now for the bad part....the auto now "Thumps" when cold especially when changing from 4th into 5th and then again into TC lock up.

It was better before it was "Serviced".

Bugger.

[pauld]

Stop going to M'bishi dealers

[Goodsy]

Just changed the fluid on mine. Same as you 150000k's and I was not sure if it had been done in the past.
MM is right you get 4.5L if you dump the pan only. As you and all others can see there is no sense in only changing half so I did a full flush and filled with Castrol Transmax Multivehicle fluid.
The fluid I drained was bright red which would indicate to most that it's fine but the locking and unlocking of the torque converter was just not right.

After the flush and new fluid the auto is so much smoother in changes. Worth the $$ for the new fluid and the hour or so it took to complete. Most of that time it was draining.

The problem you had with MM is exactly why I service our cars. I know it's been done right.

I'd go back to MM and explain your issues and how stupid it is to change only half the fluid. A mechanic should know better.

[captain_paj]

Can someone explain to me why you need a "Mitsubishi Computer" to exchange fluid in a transmission?

I know on some ABS vehicles to flush the brakes one needs to tell the ABS ECU to open the valves in the ABS controller. Thankfully I don't have one of those cars

Forsooth - what be this magic device one speaketh of that allows one to drain fluid from a transmission pan and put more in? And it speaketh the truth when it says to change out HALF the fluid? It doth not blathe?

It seems that there is too much placed on these new fangled technological devices and not enough on good old mechanical common sense.

I'm sick of mechanics. I'm sick of "sealed" transmissions. I'm sick of idiot service people at MM and Ford and Holden etc rolling out the "it's what our diagnostics computer says" and "nah I can't see any trouble codes must be ok"

HALF the fluid is HALF the fluid. PERIOD. FFS MM - you suck.

[captain_paj]

Just changed the fluid on mine. Same as you 150000k's and I was not sure if it had been done in the past.
MM is right you get 4.5L if you dump the pan only. As you and all others can see there is no sense in only changing half so I did a full flush and filled with Castrol Transmax Multivehicle fluid.

Please don't take this as an affront - but I'm a staunch believer that when a manufacturer has a specific trans fluid specified - you run that fluid.

That being said I have no idea what it is supposed to run. Last time I was in MM svc dept the guy said to me "Dia Queen SPIII is used in all Mitsibushis - even the brand new ones"

If it's meant to run Dia Queen SPIII I would NOT run anything BUT that. I did a lot of research into this, there is NOTHING on the market that has the same exact specifications as SPIII.

Engine oil is not the same thing. An auto trans is expecting the fluid to perform within certain parameters ie flow characteristics, slipperiness, ability to transfer heat. Any digression from these characteristics MUST have an effect on the way the trans behaves - albeit maybe not physically DETRIMENTAL, but at least shall we say sub-optimal. Pressures will not be the same, friction clutches/torque converter lockup etc will be affected.

As you saw, just changing out for a new fluid makes a substantial difference. It would be interesting to know if the fluid that you replaced was SPIII or something else like Dexron 3 or 4. If it was SPIII, the only reason for it to perform better after the change is that the old fluid degraded or had absorbed too much moisture.

[Tiger_DFT]

I did what homework I could before going to MM for this "Service"..

Thought I should clarify....

I service my cars and motorbikes....just not the NT Pajero Gearbox. I change it's engine oil, filters etc.

When I tried to buy Auto trans fluid.....it is not listed by anybody BUT MM.

I was told by "knowledgeable" people that you can only use "Dia Queen SPIII"..Nothing else should be used EVER.

You cannot "drop the pan"....you can only fill the 5 speed NT Auto when the MM computer let's you.....it confirms various parameters (Transmission fluid temp, qty (Somehow??) etc). This meant my toolkit wouldn't work on this computer managed gearbox....

So I go to the local MM, they book it in for ONLY a Transmission fluid change (as I do all other servicing) and their &**(!@# computer causes half the fluid to be changed...

How can this be right?

Anyways, I will in future continue to service what I can and only go to an MM dealer as the absolute last resort.

If anybody on here can provide a step by step advice on how I can change trans fluid in an NT 5 speed auto without an MM computer.....I'd REALLY love to know.

Happy New Year.

[captain_paj]

Thought I should clarify....

I service my cars and motorbikes....just not the NT Pajero Gearbox. I change it's engine oil, filters etc.

When I tried to buy Auto trans fluid.....it is not listed by anybody BUT MM.

I was told by "knowledgeable" people that you can only use "Dia Queen SPIII"..Nothing else should be used EVER.

You cannot "drop the pan"....you can only fill the 5 speed NT Auto when the MM computer let's you.....it confirms various parameters (Transmission fluid temp, qty (Somehow??) etc). This meant my toolkit wouldn't work on this computer managed gearbox....

So I go to the local MM, they book it in for ONLY a Transmission fluid change (as I do all other servicing) and their &**(!@# computer causes half the fluid to be changed...

How can this be right?

Anyways, I will in future continue to service what I can and only go to an MM dealer as the absolute last resort.

If anybody on here can provide a step by step advice on how I can change trans fluid in an NT 5 speed auto without an MM computer.....I'd REALLY love to know.

Happy New Year.

Oh that SUCKS

Firstly, this sealed transmission crap is utter crap.

Secondly - it's all getting beyond a joke. It's all about the services. Get people to buy your vehicles, and force them as much as possible to HAVE to use you to have a service done. And then charge OUTLANDISH prices for the servicing.

It's a rort.

I could tell you to flush it yourself, it'll be fine, but that wouldn't be authoritative, it would just be some dude shooting off at the mouth while you take risks with your expensive machinery.

It's why I REFUSE to EVER think of buying a new or near new vehicle, and the vehicles I do buy I always research, read forums etc. I always service my own vehicles, all repairs are done by me except when I don't have the applicable gear or knowledge (say replacing the control arm bushes in my Falcon - I didn't have a press I could easily use so I got Fulcrum to do it, but I took the control arms off and put them back on myself)

If it was me, I would be insisting that a FULL flush be done. If they don't know how, stand there while they call their MM Servicing Support number and ask them how to do it. They will of course be told the BS line "oh no - just change out half of it - it will be fine" and "there's no other way to do it" and you will get frustrated and give up.

They don't give a crap about best practice, they give a crap about what will give them maximum profit and minimise warranty work during the warranty period. It's all about profit maximisation and risk reduction.

I was thinking about buying an NM but now I'm wondering why I would. If I want another fourby (so my wife doesn't get shitty when I kill or dent her shopping cart - I can do it to my own) it will have to be an NL or some other brand vehicle that isn't BS.

The day of the real 4WD has gone.

Can someone please explain the POINT of all of this BS electronics in vehicles? WTF is most of it FOR? This is coming from a guy who works with computers for a living - technology SUCKS, and more and more it's being used to SCREW us over and LOCK us in.

Enough ranting - I'm just cranky because it's late and I have a dead Pajero in the driveway and have had to restrain myself from calling a number of different automatic "specialists" a bunch of wits

Just thinking out loud - how DO they get the fluid out and new fluid in?

A drain plug? From the cooler hose? Why can you only do 4.5L?

If I run the old fluid out through the cooler hose and at the same time I'm putting it back in through the filler (which I'm guessing isn't a filler tube/dipstick but like on my Falcon a bung in the side of the trans) - what's the problem? Is the trans going to KNOW I'm doing that? HOW would it know?

The trans would have a temp sensor, and it MIGHT have a fluid level sensor - which I doubt is a "you have 8.73 litres in your trans" but more likely a "float" type switch that says "oops too low fill me" - would it have pressure switches/sensors? Probably not but I don't know.

So if it has a temp sensor and a low level sensor, what are the implications of pumping fluid out and putting it back in at approximately the same rate as pumping out? Yes the temp would drop but the low level sensor would never trip.

Does the transmission ECU tell the engine ECU to shut down? Does the trans ECU put the trans into "limp mode" and require a MM service guy to reset it? Once in "limp mode" does the trans stay like that until a reset? And if so, can that be reset by a battery disconnect ie is the system state/error codes stored in volatile or nonvolatile memory?

I would be picking the brains of the service guys, even standing over them while they plugged into my vehicle to do the job. If you get on well with the dude, you can probably social engineer some good answers. I have gathered HEAPS of info on systems by standing over a service tech and watching what he does, the screens on their gear etc.

Most people just don't get out of their comfort zones - and most "mechanics" in service departments are morons. Sorry to any morons out there reading this - hey you probably switched off 10 minutes ago so I'm more than likely safe. I've known too many people in service departments and IMHO most spanner monkeys are just that and believe that if there's an ECU involved it's some dark magic that shouldn't be messed with.

A quick rant - it me that we get these stupid party lines rolled out at us and noone ever thinks outside the box. I get it all the time in my job. I hear the most inane BS from "techs" and software companies who know how to put on their best authoritative voice and really they have NO clue what they are talking about.

Good luck man - either suck it up and go with what MM say or don't and take your own risks.

I just read through the PDF I have on the auto but I don't actually know what years it covers. It definitely covers the 5 speed auto, but I don't know what year ranges. If the PDF applies to yours, you have a dipstick. So I'm guessing it doesn't. If it does, you can flush the fluid like everyone else can...

If it was my vehicle I would say "stuff 'em" and do it. But I won't give you that advice.

[glenn_cot]

A/T FLUID CHANGE


If there is an ATF changer, use it. If there is no ATF changer, replace the fluid as described below.



1.caution When draining the fluid from the drain plug hole, use a plate to prevent the fluid from dripping on the centre member assembly.

Remove the filler plug and the drain plug, and drain the fluid from the drain plug hole.
Discharge volume: Approx. 3.0 L
2.Install the drain plug with a gasket in between, and tighten it to the specified torque.
Tightening torque: 20 ± 2 N·m
3.Remove the overflow plug.
4.Pour in the fluid through the filler plug hole until the fluid is drained from the overflow plug hole. Wait until the fluid becomes oil drops, and then tighten the overflow plug and the filler plug to the specified torque.
Tightening torque:


20 ± 2 N·m (overflow plug)
39 ± 15 N·m (Filler plug)

5.Check the fluid level (refer to ).
6.During the fluid level check, check the drained fluid for contamination. If the fluid is contaminated, perform steps 1 to 5 again.

[captain_paj]

Where does that information come from?

Also - it only deals with 3.0L from a 9L system, and is only dropping the fluid from the pan.

[CraigFox]

An Auto Trans specialist will do a proper service on it, including flushing and changing ALL the fluid!

I have spoken to a couple here in Adelaide, and they are shocked by what they see in most brands of vehicles - not just Mitsubishi's.

If you get a "Wholesale Auto's" lock-up kit put in your trans, it would be done then.

[captain_paj]

Agreed - but the point was how to do it HIMSELF

[pasniny]

I had mine done at wholesale automatics

Conpletly drained and not running spIII
Oil

Running full synthetic trans oil i have an ns

[TheTaipan]

Please don't take this as an affront - but I'm a staunch believer that when a manufacturer has a specific trans fluid specified - you run that fluid.

That being said I have no idea what it is supposed to run. Last time I was in MM svc dept the guy said to me "Dia Queen SPIII is used in all Mitsibushis - even the brand new ones"

If it's meant to run Dia Queen SPIII I would NOT run anything BUT that. I did a lot of research into this, there is NOTHING on the market that has the same exact specifications as SPIII.

My NS has run 180,000Ks since the first major service running Valvoline synthetic at 45,000Ks. The tranny is fully flushed every 45,000Ks. Total Ks now, 223,000.

Not a problem.

[geoff&vi]

Completly drained and not running spIII Oil

Running full synthetic trans oil i have an ns

I have an NT and had the same done by Scott at The transmission centre at Underwood, south of Brisbane. Completely flushed the transmission and replaced with full synthetic fluid at 70k. While MM advise there is no alternative to SPIII, it is interesting to note that the NT Aisin 5 speed auto is the same as was used in 100 series Cruisers, with a different Valve Body and software package.

Scott told me that the Auto in the NT is a very sturdy design, great for towing and he has not seen any issues with them. Since the flush and replacing with synthetic fluid i have done 30k and the shifts are still smooth and firm (which i like).

cheers
Geoff

[captain_paj]

My NS has run 180,000Ks since the first major service running Valvoline synthetic at 45,000Ks. The tranny is fully flushed every 45,000Ks. Total Ks now, 223,000.

Not a problem.

Yeah I know many people run different fluid and are happy - just as I flat out refuse to run Magnatec in my Falcon engine (Penrite HPR5 for me)

Though I think my statement holds - I couldn't find any fluid that had the exact same characteristics as SPIII.

But that's NOT to say I'm right, just that as MM have their own fluid, that's what I choose to run.

I would love to know if you get the exact same behaviour from your transmission as the MM fluid ie fluid pressure in each circuit, same TC power transfer/lockup, same clutch friction characteristics - stuff that can't be assessed by bum on seat measurements. Maybe it doesn't matter - or maybe you get BETTER performance than the MM fluid.

All I know is my Paj was HORRIBLE with Dexron III in it.

You are obviously a very discerning gentleman who cares very carefully for his vehicle, having it fully flushed every 45K - kudos!