Twin turbo?

[rammypluge]

I am tossing ideas around for a project car. I am wondering if i could create a twin turbo, ~200kW ~600Nm, non-electronic, reliable engine from a 4m41 (or 4m40) ?

It would be fitted to an auto trans, preferably 5spd or more. It would do deep river crossings, remote areas and be a daily driver. I currently own a twin turbo diesel, and i like the power delivery much better than single variable-vane turbo cars.

[KiwiNTPajero]

what do you mean by non electronic.Some would say a crd is the ultimate electronic device

[Ian Sharpe]

600nm! dont like your chances of not breaking stuff. Pajero drivetrain isnt built for that sort of torque.

[MatthewP]

I am tossing ideas around for a project car. I am wondering if i could create a twin turbo, ~200kW ~600Nm, non-electronic, reliable engine from a 4m41 (or 4m40) ?

It would be fitted to an auto trans, preferably 5spd or more. It would do deep river crossings, remote areas and be a daily driver. I currently own a twin turbo diesel, and i like the power delivery much better than single variable-vane turbo cars.

Honestly if your only chasing 200kw, out of a 4m41, a single turbo should get you there.


Variable Vane turbos aren't for performance, they are for controlling exhaust manifold pressure for egr.

Have a look at Wazzas Engine Build thread, he is getting good power out of his Gen 3 4m41, with the older mechanical fuel pump.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48582

You would get more power from the common rail engine, as there is only so much fuel the older vrz mechanical pumps can put out, and there isnt the larger pump plunger upgrades available like there is for the TD42.

Matt

[rammypluge]

Responding to earlier posts . . .

Okay.

I am not the sort of guy that bounces a vehicle around at high throttle levels, i dont tend to break things, but i dont want to be afraid of breaking something either.

If that turns out to be not viable or too expensive, I saw some info somewhere about a chipped/ecu flashed 4m41 that was getting 179kW and 500Nm. I am not sure if the exhaust was stock or modified. If i just focused on tweaking, the rough figures i mentioned would seem within reach?

[rammypluge]

Honestly if your only chasing 200kw, out of a 4m41, a single turbo should get you there.


Variable Vane turbos aren't for performance, they are for controlling exhaust manifold pressure for egr.

Have a look at Wazzas Engine Build thread, he is getting good power out of his Gen 3 4m41, with the older mechanical fuel pump.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48582

You would get more power from the common rail engine, as there is only so much fuel the older vrz mechanical pumps can put out, and there isnt the larger pump plunger upgrades available like there is for the TD42.

Matt

Thanks. That sounds very interesting, i will check it out.

I thought variable vane was about reducing lag?

[nj swb]

Variable Vane turbos aren't for performance, they are for controlling exhaust manifold pressure for egr.

That's news to me.

Variable-geometry turbochargers (VGTs), (also known as variable nozzle turbines/VNTs), are a family of turbochargers, usually designed to allow the effective aspect ratio (A:R) of the turbo to be altered as conditions change. This is done because optimum aspect ratio at low engine speeds is very different from that at high engine speeds. If the aspect ratio is too large, the turbo will fail to create boost at low speeds; if the aspect ratio is too small, the turbo will choke the engine at high speeds, leading to high exhaust manifold pressures, high pumping losses, and ultimately lower power output. By altering the geometry of the turbine housing to help the engine accelerates, the turbo's aspect ratio can be maintained at its optimum . Because of this, VGTs have a minimal amount of lag, have a low boost threshold, and are very efficient at higher engine speeds. VGTs do not require a wastegate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-geometry_turbocharger

[rammypluge]

Have a look at Wazzas Engine Build thread, he is getting good power out of his Gen 3 4m41, with the older mechanical fuel pump.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48582

Matt

I just finished reading that thread. It confirms my desire to not fiddle with internals. Building engines isnt really my passion or experience.

I would want something easier and cheaper (for $25k there are 4wd's/engines that already have that much grunt, or can make it much more easily. Secondhand Toureg? 1HD-T?).

Its just that i want other parts of a Paj, so if i can use the motor as well, its a lot easier.

[MatthewP]

That's news to me.

From your same link

Other common uses

In trucks, VG turbochargers are also used to control the ratio of exhaust recirculated back to the engine inlet (they can be controlled to selectively increase the exhaust manifold pressure until it exceeds the inlet manifold pressure, which promotes exhaust gas recirculation aka EGR). Although excessive engine backpressure is detrimental to overall fuel efficiency, ensuring a sufficient EGR rate even during transient events (e.g., gear changes) can be sufficient to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions down to that required by emissions legislation (e.g., Euro 5 for Europe and EPA 10 for the USA).

Another use for the sliding vane type of turbocharger is as downstream engine exhaust brake (non-decompression-type), so that an extra exhaust throttle valve is not needed (turbo brake). Also, the mechanism can be deliberately modified to reduce the turbine efficiency in a predefined position. This mode can be selected to sustain a raised exhaust temperature to promote "light-off" and "regeneration" of a diesel particulate filter (this involves heating the carbon particles stuck in the filter until they oxidize away in a semi-self-sustaining reaction - rather like the self-cleaning process some ovens offer). Actuation of a VG turbocharger for EGR flow control or to implement braking or regeneration modes in general requires hydraulic or electric servo actuation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variab...y_turbocharger

A vgt turbo that is sized for a certain power level, is able to spool up sooner than a wastgated turbo that is rated to the same hp level.

But, the wastegated turbo will be more efficient at that hp level.
i.e. the exhaust manifold pressure, or drive pressure, will be lower than on the vgt turbo.

Or at least that is how it was explained to me.

Matt

[erad]

Twin turbos??? How do yuo get that from a single exhaust pipe running from the engine? Also agree with others - I think that is pushing the output from the engine way too far. Even the idea of putting a larger or more efficient intercooler on scares me a bit because you are going to get more (denser, cooler) air into the engine and thus can squirt more fuel in, resulting in higher temeperatures. Yes - I know that the inlet air is cooler and this will help to minimise temps inside the engine, but you are potentially putting a lot more heat onto the pistons.

[dunney]

I would think 150kw and 500mn would be stretching the motors in the pajero. for that I would suspect your going to be looking at exhaust, new turbo, larger cooler, tune and maybe some other stuff like pump/injectors.

this is all based on have safe reliable tunes which at the end of they day that's what you want.

unsure also on how much the factory head will allow for flow. and what the box can handle..

[MatthewP]

I think that is pushing the output from the engine way too far.

200kw shouldn't be too difficult.
Bigger turbo, custom turbo manifold, bigger intercooler, maybe custom airbox.
Performance reflash

Google 'Monster P Industries Triton', now that is pushing a 4m41.

Matt

[nj swb]

I would think 150kw and 500mn would be stretching the motors in the pajero.

The DiD in NT onwards is 140kW / 440Nm ex factory, emissions and all. 150kW / 500Nm wouldn't be stretching the motor.

[rammypluge]

200kw/600nm would be a 35% increase.

[dunney]

The DiD in NT onwards is 140kW / 440Nm ex factory, emissions and all. 150kW / 500Nm wouldn't be stretching the motor.

I'm talking power at the wheels not factory flywheel figures