Towing a van

[brinburg]

Have been looking around for a new van and have found one we like. We have 2013 GLX and realize it has 3 tonne towing capacity but with a van if the ball weight is greater than 180 can only tow 2500 laden.
One dealer has said no problems the van weighs 2300 and we can put the water tanks and battery towards the back to bring the ball weight back to 140 then with loading it should sit around 160 . Does this sound right or is it a disaster waiting to happen. Is the ball weight too light.

[peter92]

I know you said the 2013 gxl is 3 tonne but what does the tow bar it self say, there should be a plate on there saying how much weight it can have on it. i would be looking at that first
Regards Peter

[peter92]

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/pajero/specifications

I f you look on the link above you will see what your max towing is
3,000 capasity with brakes, max ball weight is 250 kgs
hope this helps
Regards Peter

[reformedjeeper]

yes mate it's a common problem -

you haven't given us a clue as to what your setup is - ??? standard or a heavier suspension?

my experience over the last 6 years of spending a lot of time in all conditions towing a 20ft full size van all around the country is as follows -

Standard suspensions in 4WD's of most persuasions are very limited in what they can do and as you have found out what weight they carry.

There are many suspension upgrades available and when setting these up for towing they need the addition of airbags such as Airbag Man or Firestone brands some others brands have fittings that let go

if you're just going for short holidays leave the vehicle as it is and redistribute the weight as you've already done, its a compromise, the standard Pajero suspension is far superior to a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Caravan manufacturers put batteries in the boot because its easier for them but not for you!!!

if you're planning longer trips, towing and taking camping gear for those hard to reach places as we do, then you have a serious weight problem that can only be addressed with a suspension upgrade.

Of this there are various options for the rear of the vehicle - these two I've used / using -

ARB can do you a 300Kg over GVM upgrade with a "50 mm" (about 45mm) lift this will mean that you will be able to carry a heavier load - remember "LOAD" also includes what you put in your 4WD!!

Dobinsons do a 400Kg over GVM upgrade with a "50mm" lift that's what I have in mine now, with the ARB springs in the front.

Dobinsons have had a lot of requests for these from people who do a lot of "vanning" and grey nomads who like us carry a lot of gear.

The difference between the above two - ARB is a very good system, it gives you lift / clearance and stability and although firm, not unduly so. I have had it in previous vehicles which have spent time in remote areas "up north" coupled with OME/ARB Nitrocharger Shocks and Struts, I've never had a failure - I don't drive gently.

The rear Dobinsons springs give a harsh ride around town, however it is a trade off for load carrying and once loaded with extra fuel, storage unit, fridge and various camping gear, the vehicle becomes an extremely stable platform both on and offroad. Add the caravan and it remains rock solid, front wheel firmly "planted" on the ground which equals control in steering and braking.

Good luck,
Cheers,
John


Yes mine still has airbags

So in the end it's horses for courses, talk to a knowledgeable suspension specialist you can trust, there are some cowboys who should stick to cars not 4WD vehicles - no offence or reference to any contributors on this forum.

[peter92]

Great advise John,
Regards Peter

[brinburg]

Van

Thanks for the info . The van is standard suspension, not off-road . I have actually just put in air bags recently before we considered the new van but maybe I should look at upgrading the susoension. Any idea what this would cost . Is the idea of having a lighter ball weight by moving the gear towards the back going to still give me a good tow

[peter92]

I think your going to have to go some where like john said, take all the info of the van, and go see a few places and see what they suggest,im like john, my cruiser has extra heavy duty springs, 50mm lift and poly bags, the bags a cheap to but, mine $110 each
and ball weight of 350
Regards Peter

[cooksta1959]

Have been looking around for a new van and have found one we like. We have 2013 GLX and realize it has 3 tonne towing capacity but with a van if the ball weight is greater than 180 can only tow 2500 laden.
One dealer has said no problems the van weighs 2300 and we can put the water tanks and battery towards the back to bring the ball weight back to 140 then with loading it should sit around 160 . Does this sound right or is it a disaster waiting to happen. Is the ball weight too light.

We bought our Pajero with towing a caravan our main criteria. (I assume you know that the Pajero also has a maximum 250kg weight restriction on the towball up to 2500kg towing.)
We have been haunting dealers and caravan shows for two years now and it is very common for the ball weight of a caravan to be varied at manufacture by moving different components such as water tanks, batteries or the door from in front of the wheels to behind them (often the wheels may be brought forward somewhat to enable this) to lower the ball weight of the van.
I have seen some vans of around 2700-2800kg ATM with ball weights of 120kg empty.

From what I have read approximately 10% of the load you put in the caravan goes to the ball. So I would imagine that at 160kg empty you may well be over the 180kg max when you do load the caravan using the, (what seems to be), industry standard of 300kg for a single axle van and 400kg for a tandem (load capacity).

As to what the ball weight should be 10% is an often quoted figure but I would suggest asking the question on the caravaner's forum.

I am unaware of any modifications that can be done to the Pajero to increase the ball weight capacity. Are there any?

[starfungi]

Just an interesting example of the physics and what happens when a caravan is loaded incorrectly and the consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8

Moving the weight to rear of the van does make it more unstable!

you say One dealer has said no problems the van weighs 2300 - is that the tare weight ?

Brian

[brinburg]

Yes that was the tare from the factory but we are a bit concerned because even though the ball weight is under the 180 it isn't the 10-12% of the tare which I understand it needs to be.

[scorpion 42]

reply to thread

has you can see, im in the UK, I used to tow a caravan quite a number of years ago and I wouldnt dream of towing a single axle van here, and we have black top every where, only time we would see dirt or gravel would be on site, if not a concrete site and the vehicle I was towing with was a 6 litre XJ 12 Jaguar, and the reason I towed with that, was landrovers were a farmers workhorse and way to agricultureal for my likeing and I wouldnt trust anything else, so take your time and get all the advice you can, before you become an accident waiting to happen.

[2bad4u]

Yes you are potentially going to have a problem. Moving weight to the rear of a van is not a good idea. Moving weight to the rear of a van to try and reduce tow ball weight is an even worse idea.

I wouldn't do it. My van has a tare of 2000kg and 2450kg loaded with approx 180kg tow ball weight, can't remember the exact figures but the weights all come within those recommended by MM (the van is a Coromal Princeton 651XC). I have an NW with standard suspension and MM tow bar. I run airbags in the rear and a WDH. Touch wood, this combination has never given me any trouble.

[2bad4u]

Just to add another point - don't let anyone try and convince you that airbags do the same job as a WDH. They don't. Some people think that because they have airbags then they don't need a WDH. I originally had the WDH and the van towed well, then I added the airbags about 6 months ago and it improved the ride / tow even more, especially on bumpy and undulating roads.

There are plenty of van's out there that fit within the Pajeros (limited) towing capacity. Check out caravaners forum where someone asked this exact question a few weeks ago and there were a dozen or more vans listed that the Pajero could tow without modifications to suspension, etc.

[JohnD]

X2, any caravan dealer that recommends redistributing weight from the front of the van to the back in order to comply with the ball weight requirements is more interested in selling a van than your safety. If you were to follow the dealers recommendation you may end up with a very unstable rig that will sway (yaw) at certain speeds. My van has a tare of 2050kg and a ball weight of 145kg. When loaded to 2400kg the wall weight is 210kg. As mentioned before plenty of vans out there that the pajero can tow with ease.

[Paj People 2009]

HI,

We're basically the same set up as John (Page 1) - heavier rear springs, airbags, etc. Good advice too!

Your 2300kg an can have a ball weight up to 250kg, not 180kg. The Paj will pull it with ease.

NEVER redistribute weight to the rear of the van - a big no, no - a major cause of sway and instability. It is better to have the weight at the front, on the ball. Don't stress if you go over the magical 250kg mark by a few kgs. It is a much more stable rig to have more on the ball, than have the ball too light. Our 20 foot van weighs 2500kg and the vall weight 250kg and I'm sure it's gone over that mark on occasions buy a few kilos, esp carrying the outboard motor! Not going to sell the car over it!

Use a good WDH (such as Hayman Reese) to level the car and add ESC to your van and with a roughly 10% ball weight, your rig should tow nice and stable.

Adding large boxes to the rear of the van is a major factor in sway and rollovers. Try to keep the weight centralised over the van's axles or on the A-frame, if no other option.

All the best,
Sally