Paj is nose up!

[sharkcaver]

After commenting in your feathered tyre thread, I've come here. IMO, the springs you have fitted have gone beyond their elastic limit and have suffered permanent sag. You need heavier or better quality springs. One reason I chose lovell's springs was the fact there has been far less comment on permanent sag with these compared to any other. Make your own mind up on that one.

BTW, love the Pentecost pic. Brings back vivid memories

[Gus]

Hi I've just read your other thread too...

Your tyre issue is definitely due to your suspension set up which I'd say from what you've described is shot! As others have said a good tyre shop should have done a 4Wheel alignment but due to your load/suspension it wouldn't have saved the tyres in this case.. (my opinion).

Also what you have been told in regards to fitting airbags to the rear of your Pajero, as others, I've never heard before. I tow a 2 ton off road van & had them on from new! the Paj is 12 years old this month!

Gus.

[pauld]

I have seen a bag pop in the Simpson but it was under a LOT of load (too much), springs weren't heavy enough for the load.

You said HD springs, are these Lovells? Most people are happy with these, especially when coupled with bags. I originally had SD Lovells rear and these weren't up to the job of our camper, I upgraded to HD and these are much better but I do have more unloaded sag on rear after 50K compared to front, but I have no bags.

There are EHD Lovells... If you want to avoid the bags & swap the springs for trips.....

[Snowgum]

Thanks to all replies for the great advice and information to this and my thread on the tyres wear on the same trip. I had thought there might have been an argument for Bridgestone to help me out, but I accept that the suspension is the culprit.

My sagging springs are 'Aurora' from Industrial Springs in South Aust. Too bad I hadnt seen this forum before they were fitted! They are a favourite brand used by the 4WD workshop I use (v reputable operator in Melbourne suburbs). They probably do more Cruisers and Prados than Pajeros though.

They are going to replace the rears with HD Lovells next week at their cost and Ill also get airbags fitted. Based on replies Im assuming most people run HD springs and 'put up' with the less forgiving ride?
Cheers
Chris

[sharkcaver]

Based on replies Im assuming most people run HD springs and 'put up' with the less forgiving ride?

As I said, there is always a trade off. If you want to tour with a heavy camper in the rough, you don't have a lot of choice really, except possibly progressive rate springs. But they need to compress to be progressive, so even then, I doubt that will solve your problem of unladen ride comfort V's sag height with the camper on the back. Airbags could possibly get you out the poo??? Then again with the weight involved, maybe not.

I've toyed with EHD myself, cause I get about an inch of sag with the camper attached. The bag inflation pressure makes no difference in my situation for some reason. But that said, with the HD and bags, I haven't scrubbed a tyre bare on a long trip, so is there any reason for the ehd?

[mrmac]

10% is only a guide. Europe is about 5%. Personally I think 10 is too much 7-8% is more reasonable. It's not a law as such. Too heavy stresses the car, too light and rig can get unstable when towing.

I'm from Europe and must say I don't really understand the need for these very high ball loading weights as seen in several threads here.

Our figures:
Regardless of trailer weight, ball pressure should not exceed 100kg, recommended is 70-80kg.

New Pajeros come from the dealer with a Westfalia/Monoflex tow ball and are rated for 3500kg but maximum 130kg ball load. I've never heard anyone have a problem with that, the Pajero is considered top of the line for heavy towing. Most trailers above 1500kg are tandem axle, and if you load them correctly there is absolutely no need to go above 100kg on the ball.

Are Australian trailers designed differently with axle(s) too far to the rear?

/Marcus

[pauld]

We honestly couldn't tell the difference between raised Lovells SD v raised Lovells HD with respect to comfort.

[d.i.wirtz]

Tow-ball Loads

I'm from Europe and must say I don't really understand the need for these very high ball loading weights as seen in several threads here.

Our figures:
Regardless of trailer weight, ball pressure should not exceed 100kg, recommended is 70-80kg.

New Pajeros come from the dealer with a Westfalia/Monoflex tow ball and are rated for 3500kg but maximum 130kg ball load. I've never heard anyone have a problem with that, the Pajero is considered top of the line for heavy towing. Most trailers above 1500kg are tandem axle, and if you load them correctly there is absolutely no need to go above 100kg on the ball.

Are Australian trailers designed differently with axle(s) too far to the rear?

/Marcus

Hi Marcus

The norm in Australia is 10% of the overall weight is attributed to the ball to ensure noose down weight on a towed trailer is sufficient to stop the nose from lifting causing an unstable rear end on the towing vehicle. This of course changes on tandem axle towed trailers as the weight is distributed over the axles more evenly. However even on European Caravans such as Bailey a UK brand the distance from the coupling to the first axle is greater that the distance from the second axle to the rear of the trailer to ensure nose down.
The issue discussed on this thread was however in relation to an off road camper towed on a road surface less than desirable for towing in the first place. I myself have a 1900KG off road camper that has a ball weight exceeding 220kg on the back of an NW Platinum Pajero. The reason for this weight is that there are two Engel Fridges in the front of the camper. Now you may ask why I haven't placed one of these fridges to the rear of the camper. Simply it is because as mentioned some of these roads or tracks are in such a poor condition that the camper gets airborne or at least thrown around very violently thus causing the fridges to break. If such items are placed closer to the towing vehicle the stabler that end of the towed trailer becomes eliminating possible damage.
As for the suspension weigh issue. The originator of this thread has not only added 120KG+ on the ball weight but also added a 56lt second tank that would add an additional 100KG+ the a few extra items in the rear of the vehicle and you very quickly add another 100KG+ now you have 300KG+ behind the rear axle of the vehicle thus sagging the rear end down. Now as you said Pajero's are known for being a great towing vehicle... Towing is correct not lifting. Two very different issues. In my vehicle I had to have two 300KG load King Springs fitted with Bildstein shock-absorbers to stop the rear sagging.