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PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 Covering 2.5 HP diesel

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Old 13-01-20
colmat colmat is offline
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Default Aftermarket wheels

Hi all, looking at these aftermarket wheels https://www.ebay.com.au/i/2827618442...SABEgInQ_D_BwE

The centre bore is larger than Challenger factory alloys. Just wondering if this is an issue as seem to remember reading on previous threads a possible issue with changing wheels etc.

Sorry if this is stupid question but have limited knowledge of technical stuff and prefer to have some background before visiting wheel shops.

Cheers
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Old 13-01-20
HeavyPizzaz HeavyPizzaz is offline
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Default Aftermarket wheels

Thereíll be some who say that you canít run larger centre bore wheels with hub centric rings because the hub holds some weight ie itís not just the studs that take the full weight of the car.

There are others who say itís fine and theyíve done it heaps of times.

Potentially some cars itís more critical for the hub / bore size to match. Not sure about the Challenger.

My old NP had 4 hub centric rings to fit aftermarket wheels. Two of the rings were plastic (from Bob Jane) and the other two were aluminum from memory from the interwebs. I didnít run them long term so canít comment on the whole ďplastic melting / getting stuckĒ etc but there werenít any noticeable vibrations from the wheels.

The above is mostly from memory and maybe Iím mixing it up with something.. eg I remember something about tapered wheel nuts essentially centering the wheel okay when you tighten them up.

And I know thereís a lot more to say about the topic. This probably hasnít helped at all lol, only raised more questions.

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Old 13-01-20
bsperka bsperka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyPizzaz View Post
Thereíll be some who say that you canít run larger centre bore wheels with hub centric rings because the hub holds some weight ie itís not just the studs that take the full weight of the car.

There are others who say itís fine and theyíve done it heaps of times.

Potentially some cars itís more critical for the hub / bore size to match. Not sure about the Challenger.

My old NP had 4 hub centric rings to fit aftermarket wheels. Two of the rings were plastic (from Bob Jane) and the other two were aluminum from memory from the interwebs. I didnít run them long term so canít comment on the whole ďplastic melting / getting stuckĒ etc but there werenít any noticeable vibrations from the wheels.

The above is mostly from memory and maybe Iím mixing it up with something.. eg I remember something about tapered wheel nuts essentially centering the wheel okay when you tighten them up.

And I know thereís a lot more to say about the topic. This probably hasnít helped at all lol, only raised more questions.

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The engineers are "some who say". The hub supports the weight, the nuts hold the wheel onto the hub. It's been this way for over 20 years.
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Old 13-01-20
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I am not sure a 17x9 +30 offset rim will fit on the Challenger front without rubbing on the suspension, steering or body work, across all steering and suspension compression positions.
Factory size is 17x7.5 +38 offset, so my calculations are the wheel track will be widened by 16mm, the inner edge of the rim will move 11 mm inwards and the outer edge of the rim will move outwards by 27mm.

What size, brand and model tyre are you thinking of fitting to these rims?

LT 265/65R17, LT275/65R17 and LT285/65R17 are all approved up to a 9.5 inch wide rim.
LT265/70R17 and LT275/70R17 are only approved up to 8.5 inch wide rims.

OJ.
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Old 13-01-20
HeavyPizzaz HeavyPizzaz is offline
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Default Aftermarket wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsperka View Post
The engineers are "some who say". The hub supports the weight, the nuts hold the wheel onto the hub. It's been this way for over 20 years.
Like I said lol.. some will say.. and without direct quotes from the engineers who supposedly are the some who say.. There are just as many online sources that say that they donít hold weight but rather itís the friction between the wheel and the axle mount, created by the nuts being torqued on. Also Iím 90% certain Iíve seen factory alloy wheels where the ďmatchingĒ centre bore has a 2-3mm diameter difference and obviously that hub ainít holding any weight or youíd have vibrations that shake your teeth out when you follow the logic of this, for the hub to bear weight without causing any vibrations then surely the clearance between the hub and the circumference of the bore hole would have to be so negligible that youíd almost have to hammer the wheel on.

Anyway, Iím not presenting either side as the truth because the fact is I just donít know. Just wanted to present both sides of the argument. Maybe there are some engineers whoíve designed these things that can create an account on this forum, jump on and clarify everything


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Old 13-01-20
NJV6 NJV6 is offline
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I run 17x9 on my pajero (yes I know this is the challenger page!) and they come with inserts so the centre bore matches the Pajero one. They are hard plastic.

I will say one thing, if you intend to do much off road with those rims 9 inch rims they are very easy to scratch/gouge/damage as there is very little tyre (if any) to protect the rim. And when you scratch a black rim it is very obvious as itís alloy coloured underneath. Mine had a machined outer edge so itís not as obvious.
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Old 13-01-20
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In an ideal world, the wheel would be centred on the hub and the studs transmit drive and braking torque.

If you have wheels designed for tapered nuts then tightening the nuts in an intelligent staged sequence will probably suffice - I haven't had trouble with the steel wheels in Shorty.

For the factory alloys on my Pajero, that have sleeved nuts and flat washers, there needs to be clearance between the nut sleeve and the matching bore in the wheel so that the nuts don't bind in the wheel bores due to differential temperature expansion, or crud buildup over time (as wheels go on & off). With this required clearance the nuts cannot be relied upon to centre the wheel, so hub-centric spacers would be required. Or the wheels could be professionally modified with tapered inserts, so they could then be centred with tapered nuts, but I'm not sure if this solution is technically legal.

I noticed the ebay ad claims that they manufacture "tyres and wheels". If you do decide to proceed with purchasing these wheels, have them put something in writing that the wheels comply with whatever is the relevant Australian Standard.
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Old 13-01-20
colmat colmat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
I am not sure a 17x9 +30 offset rim will fit on the Challenger front without rubbing on the suspension, steering or body work, across all steering and suspension compression positions.
Factory size is 17x7.5 +38 offset, so my calculations are the wheel track will be widened by 16mm, the inner edge of the rim will move 11 mm inwards and the outer edge of the rim will move outwards by 27mm.

What size, brand and model tyre are you thinking of fitting to these rims?

LT 265/65R17, LT275/65R17 and LT285/65R17 are all approved up to a 9.5 inch wide rim.
LT265/70R17 and LT275/70R17 are only approved up to 8.5 inch wide rims.

OJ.
OJ, Currently running the standard 265/65/17 and ideally I'd like to run the 285/65/17. I measured about 18-20mm still inside guard with original setup so was thinking extra 8mm offset change and 10mm (half of 285mm increase) would really fill the guards out. Looking to create the Ford Raptor style look.

Didn't expect the increase to 9" rims would create issues with steering/suspension as the rim width (9" = 229mm) would still be less than the original tyre width 265mm. Wouldn't the sidewall of tyre hit first?? Haven't looked underneath the rig and like I said my technical knowledge is quite basic.

Are there any makes/models that run the same small bore as the Challenger and +30 offset?

Thanks
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Old 13-01-20
colmat colmat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj swb View Post
In an ideal world, the wheel would be centred on the hub and the studs transmit drive and braking torque.

If you have wheels designed for tapered nuts then tightening the nuts in an intelligent staged sequence will probably suffice - I haven't had trouble with the steel wheels in Shorty.

For the factory alloys on my Pajero, that have sleeved nuts and flat washers, there needs to be clearance between the nut sleeve and the matching bore in the wheel so that the nuts don't bind in the wheel bores due to differential temperature expansion, or crud buildup over time (as wheels go on & off). With this required clearance the nuts cannot be relied upon to centre the wheel, so hub-centric spacers would be required. Or the wheels could be professionally modified with tapered inserts, so they could then be centred with tapered nuts, but I'm not sure if this solution is technically legal.

I noticed the ebay ad claims that they manufacture "tyres and wheels". If you do decide to proceed with purchasing these wheels, have them put something in writing that the wheels comply with whatever is the relevant Australian Standard.
Thanks NJ, not actually gunna buy from this ebay site, but the wheels were what I was looking at. They are sold through Bob Jane outlets.

So I'm gathering it is best to find rims that have the same centre bore? I had a quick look and it appears this is not a very common size for aftermarket rims.

Cheers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colmat View Post
OJ, Currently running the standard 265/65/17 and ideally I'd like to run the 285/65/17. I measured about 18-20mm still inside guard with original setup so was thinking extra 8mm offset change and 10mm (half of 285mm increase) would really fill the guards out. Looking to create the Ford Raptor style look.

Didn't expect the increase to 9" rims would create issues with steering/suspension as the rim width (9" = 229mm) would still be less than the original tyre width 265mm. Wouldn't the sidewall of tyre hit first?? Haven't looked underneath the rig and like I said my technical knowledge is quite basic.

Are there any makes/models that run the same small bore as the Challenger and +30 offset?

Thanks
The fitted tyre will always be wider than the rim if the rim is narrower than the cross sectional width of the tyre but a 265 wide tyre fitted to a 7.5 inch rim will be a different overall width to when it is fitted to a 9 inch rim.
Tyre manufacturers will state a particular cross sectional width for a specific tyre for a set rim width, normally the rim width selected is mid range between the narrowest and the widest approved rim width.

To get the best all round performance from a tyre it is advisable to use the tyre manufacturers specified rim width, for off road it is better to go a slightly narrower rim and on road performance a slightly wider rim.
By fitting a 265 to a 9" rim you significantly compromise the tyre's performance off road. You can expect more rim, tyre shoulder and tyre sidewall damage as well as the tyre bead will unseat easier at reduced off road pressures.

Sorry I am not aware of any small bore +30 offset rim rims either after market or genuine.

OJ.
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