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PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 Covering 2.5 HP diesel

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  #11  
Old 15-01-13
260DET 260DET is offline
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As mudguard1 said, the steel protection plate is not slotted where it sits in front of the trans cooler. Could be because originally a cooler was not fitted to the PB?

I'm a bit anal about air flow and cooling, moved the front number plate up a bit so that the bottom part did not interfere with the bottom grille opening. Can't do any harm.

On the routing of the trans oil cooler lines, it looks like as old Jack suggested that it goes through the engine radiator first and then through it's own cooler. Need to pull bits off to to be sure but other jobs have priority at the present.
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  #12  
Old 15-01-13
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Default Thanks

Thanks Bruce,

That is good info to have, it is unusual for a bullbar to have more open area than the original grill section it removes or covers, I am guessing you don't have any temperature issues. With that amount of open area I think you could place a bug screen over the opening without any detrimental effects, I have flyscreen over all frontal airflow openings to keep the coolers, condenser and radiator from clogging up and getting damaged.

cheers, old Jack.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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  #13  
Old 15-01-13
tilly tilly is offline
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Default Transmission Overheat

I wrote to Mitsubishi and they gave me the same speel as the dealer.
They ask me to replicate the problem- do I have to drive 300 kms up and down hills to show them the bloody thing overheats and locks up like it did today. Mind you its a cooler day.
Most dealers wont give the time and dont have the inclination.
I had a look and see a steel grill covering my cooler with a gap near the
intercooler side. The only other space is the grill area and I have removed my number plate from there as it was covering the cooler.
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  #14  
Old 15-01-13
ngatioka ngatioka is offline
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Hi Guys.

Been a member since we decided to return to OZ. I purchased my PB Challenger in 2010 in Wellington NZ. We had a PA and loved it so much that we brought the PB when it came out. This is the first time posting something on the forum.

We moved back to OZ 6 months ago and brought the Challenger with us.

We travelled a lot in NZ with its hilly, winding and sometimes mountainous roads, towed a horse float loaded with furniture 500kms and no problems with the A/T locking in 2nd gear, use the tiptronic when out of town. Air temperature was about 25 degrees.

Last week we were on Bribie Island camping when we had to evacuate because of the fires and had to travel the beach road. The tires were dropped to 20psi and was in 4 high lock. As it was almost high tide had to drive in the soft sand all the way down the beach, the lagoons were low so not running across the beach. Air temp was 35 degrees. About 2/3rds of the way down the car stayed in 2nd gear and wouldn't change gear. Radiator temp didn't move at all.

My brother got stuck when he was about to drive out onto the carpark.

The challenger snatched him out twice with no problems and the tip tronic was working again.

This is the first time I had any problems with the 2nd gear lock. Car is on 27000km now so due for its 30000km service, this may solve it and will also see if there are any updates for the ECU. Car has low mileage as only used it for family trips, hunting or taking the dog somewhere.

Keen to get back to Bribie and do the same run again to see if I get the same problem after the service and will advise the forum

Last edited by ngatioka; 15-01-13 at 11:04 PM.
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  #15  
Old 16-01-13
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Default More info please

Welcome Ngatioka,

Did your AT Temp warning light come "ON" when you had the 2nd gear lockout ?

Were you in drive or sports mode when the lockout happened ?

If you were in drive did the "D" display flash on and off ?

If you were in sports mode, were you trying to and select 3rd and the transmission wouldn't change up.

At what speed did this happen ? and what throttle position ?

ASC selected OFF ? if not was ASC light flashing ?

Was Traction Control light flashing ?


cheers, old Jack.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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  #16  
Old 16-01-13
ngatioka ngatioka is offline
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Welcome Ngatioka,

Did your AT Temp warning light come "ON" when you had the 2nd gear lockout ? No lights came on

Were you in drive or sports mode when the lockout happened ? Yes

If you were in drive did the "D" display flash on and off ? When I flicked back to drive no "D" flashing

If you were in sports mode, were you trying to and select 3rd and the transmission wouldn't change up. Yes

At what speed did this happen ? 50km and what throttle position ? Unsure but same position to keep the speed

ASC selected OFF ? Yes if not was ASC light flashing ?N/A

Was Traction Control light flashing ? Did not see anything flashing on the dashboard at all
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  #17  
Old 16-01-13
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Default Some thoughts.

Thanks Ngatioka,

Great information, I have done some reading/thinking about this as it seems to be a frequent issue when towing up long hills or on long stretches of soft sand but my current thoughts are;

The 2nd gear lockout is not a temperature related issue unless the AT Temp light is "ON".
The AT ECU has a function to prevent transmission damage under certain high load conditions, ie uphill towing and long stretches of soft sand. In all cases reported on the forum high load and high engine rpm seems to be a common denominator.

According to the Service Manual the protection lockout can occur when the transmission is in "D" or in "2" or "3" or "4" or "5" if using the sports mode.

When it occurs in "D" then the "D" flashes and 3rd gear is locked in and you can only downshift to 2nd by moving to the sports mode or into "N" (the gearbox will not upshift!), both actions effectively drop engine rpm and vehicle speed, after speed and rpm have reduced you can select "D" or "3" and the gearbox resets.

When in sports mode then the ECU limits the transmission to 2nd even though you can select and have displayed "3", "4" or "5" the ECU over rides your request whilst certain unsafe conditions are present and will not change up gears until safe conditions return.

In both the above cases the AT ECU is looking for certain conditions and although I don't have the internal logic of the program I am guessing that the AT ECU will be looking at wheel speed, ASC system, Traction Control system, ATF Temps, Engine RPM, AT output shaft speed and throttle position. Based on any number of conditions or combination of conditions the AT ECU will go into protect mode and lockout the trans. Most likely it will be calculating the amount of slip occurring in the torque convertor and when this is too much it goes into lockout mode. Excessive TC slip will cause damage to internal transmission components and the ATF will overheat and lose its lubricating and hydraulic properties.

Fitting a torque convertor over ride lockout kit, which I am told fixes this and other issues, the torque convertor is manually/electrically locked so no slip occurs to the point were the engine can stall just like a manual transmission. If you had a manual and the driving loads exceeded the engines torque capacity then even at full throttle the engine rpm will drop of rapidly forcing a down shift or an engine stall. I think that with a TC lock kit you may see the same effect as the manual trans and engine rpm will wash off. I do not know if there are any negative effects of the TC lockup kit but I suspect if used often, for large periods of time and in high load conditions the electronic TC lockup components may wear or fail prematurely much the same way as a mechanical disc/plate type clutch will fail if mistreated or overloaded.

It would be interesting to have a manual and an auto Challenger both working hard and see how the manual is performing when the auto goes into lockout mode. Are we expecting to much performance from the auto? Do we need to drive a little easier in high load situations to prevent the AT ECU from intervening.

cheers, old Jack.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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  #18  
Old 20-01-13
picard picard is offline
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Fantastic old jack, more info here than you would ever get form mit`bishi service centre
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  #19  
Old 22-01-13
260DET 260DET is offline
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What I have decided to do is to get an engine/transmission temperature monitor, with a thermo fan switching facility, and then wait and see. If the transmission runs too hot then a thermo fan on the transmission cooler radiator will be installed.
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  #20  
Old 22-01-13
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Default Thermo fan on ATF cooler ????

Richard,
I may have the math wrong but I do not think that fitting a thermo fan to the ATF cooler is going to improve cooling except if you are stationary and then the transmission is not under load.

A read of the Davis Craig thermo fan performance graphs on their website tells me an 20cm thermo fan is capable of 180 litres per second maximum which = 10,800 litres per minute which = 1,080,000 cubic centimetres per min, divide this by 314 square centimetres (the area of a 20 cm dia fan) and this gives you the speed of the airflow through the fan, so the number is 3439 cm per min or 34.39 mt per min or 2040 mt per hour which is only 2.04 kph!

Even if the thermo fan is mounted on the back of the ATF cooler so it is sucking air through the cooler, a 20 cm fan with an area of 314 squ cm mounted on a 20cm x 30cm ATF cooler with an area of 600 squ cm at air speeds of 2kph through only 46% of the coolers area it is unlikely to reduce ATF temperatures. In fact the thermo fan will actually restrict the free airflow through the ATF cooler by 6% based on the area of the fan hub alone and not taking into account the effect that back pressure generated by the fan itself will have on the airflow.

Someone please check my math and reasoning as I did read on the Davis Craig website that thermo fans are ineffective at speeds greater than 50 kph. Have I got it wrong as it is a big difference between 2 kph and 50 kph!

cheers, old Jack.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

Last edited by old Jack; 23-01-13 at 04:59 AM.
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