URGENT Please.Valve Stem Seals.Inconsistent opinions from mechanics. Valve Stem Seals

[Joe72]

Hi,

I'm asking this for my husband so please bare with my lady brain

We recently purchased a 99 auto, 3.5 litre, Escape Pajero. It's done just over 229,000 kilometres. The seller had service history until about 190,000 kilometres.

Here are the symptoms of what's happening:
1. Blows a fair amount of white smoke at first start up but stops when we rev it up to 2500
2. Slight, inconsistent splutter upon acceleration. Not enough to freak us out. Nothing like the symptoms we experienced when we had to replace the catalytic converter in our old car.

We've just put a new air filter in as the other one was putrid.
It's not using water which apparently is a good sign it's not the head. It definitely doesn't blow smoke constantly. Predominantly on take off.

It's been suggested it's an oil leak from the valve stem seals. Research tells me that the seals can be replaced without messing with the head. One mechanic has confirmed this but is reluctant to give it a go.
So after calling several mechanics, most want us to pay $1200-$2000 for an engine rebuild. A few mechanics haven't returned phone calls with quotes to replace just the valve stem seals.

We've found a additive, brand name Liquid Intelligence. I've attached a photo of the product which claims to stop the seal leaks.

Is this a bandaid solution, or could it really work?
What's your opinion on what you think the problem is?
We've been told it's not easy to diagnose if it's the valve stem seals. Do you believe this to be correct?
Is there any other info I can give you to narrow down the problem?

We're under the impression if it blows smoke consistently/frequently and uses a lot of water then it's a cracked head/gasket rings.

Thanks for reading. An urgent reply would be truly appreciated.

Jo.

[Motorace]

Have done the valve stem seals myself on an old manga. You use a fitting that screws into the spark plug hole that you attach a compressor to. The air pressure keeps the valve up in place while you change the seals.

Manga used to blow smoke on take off too, but normally blue.

[scribble88]

What part of Tasmania are you in? If it is Hobart, there is a Mechanic who I would trust my life with in Kensignton.

Yes, the fluid you have is a band aid solution. It may make things worse, hiding your symptom, clogging up your engine.

I am sorry to say, but $1200 isn't that unreasonable. Hourly labour rates $100 to $150.00.

Let me look on Dr Google, for an alternative.

[scribble88]

OK, here is what I have found:

A business in Perth West. Aust, has reconditioned a 6G74 ( Your engine ) cylinder head and had it on Gumtree in 2014 for $320. That is a brand new top end for your engine, it includes all the valves etc. A mechanic would use your rocker cover, and install all new gaskets (Extra cost ) and bolt on your new head, attach the manifolds, new oil and oil filter done. This is a relatively easy job, should not cost too much in labour. You wont have any issues with a mechanic doing that for you.

Why am I suggesting a company in WA, well you could phone this guy ask him if he has another complete head in stock, freight it to Tassie. Then you could get a mechanic to install it. However it would probable be cheaper to find an engine re-bulder in Tassie and ask him how much to recondition your head. Or if it is cheaper, google search Tasmania Cylinder head re-conditioners, if none, try Qld, from my searching they seem to be engine rebuild capital. Then get a mechanic to fit it.

The Tassie engine rebuilder, may have a company that he can buy an exchange head from. You get a cheaper head with all the gear, in exchange for your old head for them to recondition.

A japanese low km import, complete engine seems to go for $2000 to 2500. In japan once an engine has done a certain amount of KM, the government states it must be taken off the road. It is something like 10,000 km I think.

A reconditioned complete engine for $3000 to 4000.

A complete second hand engine from the wreckers $600 to 1000.

Bear in mind that Jap. import engine could be sitting for 10 years, considering yours is a 1999 model. Not that is a huge issue, just may need an engine flush or extra work to get it to function well.

Second hand engine, comes with a history, you could get a good one or not. From what I have read the 6G74 engine is a solid beast, so second hand is possible.

It is a sad indictment on our society that it is easier and more cost effect to replace parts like a cylinder head, than try repair a valve seal.

[Joe72]

Have done the valve stem seals myself on an old manga. You use a fitting that screws into the spark plug hole that you attach a compressor to. The air pressure keeps the valve up in place while you change the seals.

Manga used to blow smoke on take off too, but normally blue.

Thank you Motorace.
Hubby gives most things a crack but I'm not sure he's confident this time

[Joe72]

Have done the valve stem seals myself on an old manga. You use a fitting that screws into the spark plug hole that you attach a compressor to. The air pressure keeps the valve up in place while you change the seals.

Manga used to blow smoke on take off too, but normally blue.

OK, here is what I have found:

A business in Perth West. Aust, has reconditioned a 6G74 ( Your engine ) cylinder head and had it on Gumtree in 2014 for $320. That is a brand new top end for your engine, it includes all the valves etc. A mechanic would use your rocker cover, and install all new gaskets (Extra cost ) and bolt on your new head, attach the manifolds, new oil and oil filter done. This is a relatively easy job, should not cost too much in labour. You wont have any issues with a mechanic doing that for you.

Why am I suggesting a company in WA, well you could phone this guy ask him if he has another complete head in stock, freight it to Tassie. Then you could get a mechanic to install it. However it would probable be cheaper to find an engine re-bulder in Tassie and ask him how much to recondition your head. Or if it is cheaper, google search Tasmania Cylinder head re-conditioners, if none, try Qld, from my searching they seem to be engine rebuild capital. Then get a mechanic to fit it.

The Tassie engine rebuilder, may have a company that he can buy an exchange head from. You get a cheaper head with all the gear, in exchange for your old head for them to recondition.

A japanese low km import, complete engine seems to go for $2000 to 2500. In japan once an engine has done a certain amount of KM, the government states it must be taken off the road. It is something like 10,000 km I think.

A reconditioned complete engine for $3000 to 4000.

A complete second hand engine from the wreckers $600 to 1000.

Bear in mind that Jap. import engine could be sitting for 10 years, considering yours is a 1999 model. Not that is a huge issue, just may need an engine flush or extra work to get it to function well.

Second hand engine, comes with a history, you could get a good one or not. From what I have read the 6G74 engine is a solid beast, so second hand is possible.

It is a sad indictment on our society that it is easier and more cost effect to replace parts like a cylinder head, than try repair a valve seal.

I cannot thank you enough and truly appreciate you taking the time to look into this for me

Bearing in mind I'm a chick Do you think it's not advisable to get someone to just fix the valve seals?
Is reconditioning an engine tarting up the existing engine or are we looking at tracking down a second hand one?

Not being a tight arse but we have young twins & money is an issue.

We live nearly 3 hours away from Hobart. We haven't found one mechanic here yet that can take into account our financial situation.
Thanks again.

[Pajshomoneroguntero]

If it is just the stem seals don't be too worried they aren't urgent.

You can check by idling for a few minutes then giving the accelerator a squirt. If the stem seals are in need of replacement you'd likely see a puff of smoke although I'd expect the smoke to be blue in colour.

White smoke is more concerning and usually indicates water into the exhaust most likely via a deteriorated head seal or a cracked head. It doesn't have to be much water at all and you may not even notice a discernible change in the coolant level (at first anyway).

Reconditioned heads may be a way to go although your probably looking at something like $700 and there's two of them an then there's the labour to remove and refit. . Usually requiring exchange and your bits, valves, lash adjusters, etc get moved to the new head. A cheaper option would be to source heads from a wrecker. I strongly suggest making contact with Pete. You can reach him via eBay as fasterfaster1. He'll be able to give advice at the least and he knows his way around a Paj backwards and blindfolded.

[erad]

Hi,

Here are the symptoms of what's happening:
1. Blows a fair amount of white smoke at first start up but stops when we rev it up to 2500
2. Slight, inconsistent splutter upon acceleration. Not enough to freak us out. Nothing like the symptoms we experienced when we had to replace the catalytic converter in our old car.

We've just put a new air filter in as the other one was putrid.
It's not using water which apparently is a good sign it's not the head. It definitely doesn't blow smoke constantly. Predominantly on take off. .....

It's been suggested it's an oil leak from the valve stem seals. Research tells me that the seals can be replaced without messing with the head. One mechanic has confirmed this but is reluctant to give it a go. ......

We've found a additive, brand name Liquid Intelligence. I've attached a photo of the product which claims to stop the seal leaks.

Is this a bandaid solution, or could it really work?
What's your opinion on what you think the problem is?
We've been told it's not easy to diagnose if it's the valve stem seals. Do you believe this to be correct?
Is there any other info I can give you to narrow down the problem?

We're under the impression if it blows smoke consistently/frequently and uses a lot of water then it's a cracked head/gasket rings.

Thanks for reading. An urgent reply would be truly appreciated.

Jo.

Jo:
If the valve stem seals are stuffed, you will get a cloud of blue smoke after leaving the engine idling for a few minutes, or on startup. This applies particularly when the engine is warm. ALso, if you back off down a steep hill and then put your foot down hard at the bottom, if your valve stem seals are worn you will get a massive cloud of blue smoke.

Worn rings will cause blue smoke when the engine is under load. Very worn rings will also allow oil to get past the rings with the engine on overrun ie going downhill and then blow blue smoke.

White smoke on startup is probably steam. Is the white smoke only when it is cold or when it is warm as well? If it only when cold, it is normal.

You say that it is not using water. How do you check the coolant? Just checking the overflow bottle in not enough. You should also check the water level in the radiator When it is cold, not hot or you will get scalded. Reason is that if you have a leak (head gasket or cracked head) gasses will blow into the cooling system and burp into the overflow bottle. They then disperse. As the engine cools, excess coolant is then drawn back into the engine from the bottle and you may never know . I had a Range Rover which used to apparently make water - sometimes the overflow bottle would be full, other times it would be empty. It was a blown head gasket.

An engine should use NO water at all. If you are using water, your problems could be:
1 A radiator cap not sealing properly,
2 A leak in a hose or the radiator or heater core,
3 A blown head gasket or a cracked head.

You can get the cooling system pressure tested but this may not give 100% answer because with my Range Rover, it showed no problems. It was only when the engine got to operating temperature that the head gasket started to blow. Eventually the problem would have manifsested itself - i detected it in its early stages.

If the heads are OK and you are using no water, and you are not upset by a cloud of smoke, I would leave it alone until you get pinged by some EPA guys or a nasty copper. I am not personally in favour of using additives such as you mention because they may also block up other parts of the oil system and that could do much more damage.

[Joe72]

Update

Just an update and a HUGE thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply to my post.
I've truly appreciated all your advice.

We had the mechanic run a combustion doodad test yesterday and he's 100% it's not a cracked head

We've since found out it sat for 2 months without even being started by the original owners.
Hubby's going to do the usual stuff he does when he buys a car, oil change & oil filter, check spark plugs, fuel filter. He's already changed the air filter which was pretty filthy.

As the mechanic said and hubby knew this, there's a slight oil leak in the rocker cover which he can do himself.
In summary the mechanic seems to think it just needs a bit of TLC. Like us women, if we're not maintained and serviced properly, we tend to get a bit crabby

Thanks again everyone.

[basil]

Joe, if your in a bit of a jam with money, pm me and I can send you some stuff to both clean out the engine, clean your fuel system properly and prolong it's life fro no cost. (Out of my own stock)
Happy to do it as having two new twins would be enough of a challenge without worrying about car issues.

Cheers,

[Joe72]

Joe, if your in a bit of a jam with money, pm me and I can send you some stuff to both clean out the engine, clean your fuel system properly and prolong it's life fro no cost. (Out of my own stock)
Happy to do it as having two new twins would be enough of a challenge without worrying about car issues.

Cheers,

Hi Basil,
I must admit I'm a bit teary from your reply.
Thank you for your generous offer.
Well get through this but I will pm you
Jo.

[Dicko1]

Joe, if your in a bit of a jam with money, pm me and I can send you some stuff to both clean out the engine, clean your fuel system properly and prolong it's life fro no cost. (Out of my own stock)
Happy to do it as having two new twins would be enough of a challenge without worrying about car issues.

Cheers,

Nice one Basil.

[Joe72]

Nice one Basil.

Couldn't agree more

[basil]

I got a lovely phone call from Jo and her hubby the other morning to say they had received their stuff in the mail.
It came jut half an hour after I had just had my dog put down at home and I needed to hear her happy voice.
Putting an animal down is one of the hardest things I have ever done. God bless you little Oska.

Thank you Jo.

[Joe72]

I got a lovely phone call from Jo and her hubby the other morning to say they had received their stuff in the mail.
It came jut half an hour after I had just had my dog put down at home and I needed to hear her happy voice.
Putting an animal down is one of the hardest things I have ever done. God bless you little Oska.

Thank you Jo.

Oh Barry. I'm so deeply sorry

Our neighbours just had to do the same thing. I still cry when I think about what they've just been through. The same neighbours took our chickens off our hands. I cried like a baby.
Animals are so precious. Ours have always been our babies.

You are one in a million Barry. Words cannot express our gratitude for what you have done for us.

RIP Oska.

Love Us
xxxxxx