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Old 11-07-18
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Default Auto- Mate for PB/PC Challenger.

My Challenger has just started a R&D 2 week holiday at MM4x4 for the install and testing of Auto-Mate. Looking forward to getting it back as a test drive in MM's NX Pajero with Auto-Mate was very impressive.

OJ.
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Old 11-07-18
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Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
My Challenger has just started a R&D 2 week holiday at MM4x4 for the install and testing of Auto-Mate. Looking forward to getting it back as a test drive in MM's NX Pajero with Auto-Mate was very impressive.

OJ.
It surprises me how you wouldn't recommend a chip as a modification but you would this

locking the gear box out of its normal characteristics could be asking for trouble IMO

would be interesting what the long term affects would be.
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Old 11-07-18
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It surprises me how you wouldn't recommend a chip as a modification but you would this

locking the gear box out of its normal characteristics could be asking for trouble IMO
I wouldn't characterise it as that.

Auto-mate uses the sport mode input to request a gear that will allow the torque converter to remain locked. It requests gear changes, but ultimately the factory programming decides whether or not to make the change, and will over-ride to down change gears if it feels it should.

Long term effect? Yes, it will keep the torque converter locked more. Will that have a material effect on clutches and brakes in the transmission? Only time will tell.
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Old 12-07-18
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would be interesting what the long term affects would be.
A longer lasting transmission and fuel savings
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Old 12-07-18
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A longer lasting transmission and fuel savings

Agree. Had a long (3 hour haul) up a 4wd trail towing my camper. The lockup kit was worth its weight in gold. Just need to get the 2nd gear issue sorted when available.
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time will tell,
it would be the internals of the box that would worry me more than the small fuel savings on the minimal times it would be used

at least with my chip I decide what power to feed it and to date its the best mod I done with enormous power gains and fuel economy.
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Old 12-07-18
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time will tell,
it would be the internals of the box that would worry me more than the small fuel savings on the minimal times it would be used

at least with my chip I decide what power to feed it and to date its the best mod I done with enormous power gains and fuel economy.
what chip you running again ? ...

...
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Old 15-07-18
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what chip you running again ? ...

...
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Old 18-07-18
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It surprises me how you wouldn't recommend a chip as a modification but you would this

locking the gear box out of its normal characteristics could be asking for trouble IMO

would be interesting what the long term affects would be.
Hi Nick,

Many times I have looked closely at both an engine chip/tune and fitting a TC lockup on my Challenger since new but have always been concerned about the effects on warranty and longevity of the torque convertor. The fact that Mitsubishi choose to limit the engine torque from 400Nm down to 350Nm if a clear indication the TC is the weak link in the system. Research into to mechanicals of the 5 speed Jatco trans, which has been used on various vehicles including earlier Pajero's, and the only common issue I can find is with internal pins coming loose and TC's failing with people that towed heavy and had first generation TC lockup kits without PWM control fitted. Mitsubishi decided to increase the stall ratio of the TC fitted to the Jatco from 1.61:1 to 2.04:1, this is a very high slip TC so the torque multiplication effect is huge. I suspect it is related to over coming the flat spot/turbo lag of the 4D56 CRD engine at low rpm and the 3,000kg towing limit. Unfortunately high slip means high ATF temps and this means a rapid decrease in the performance of the ATF and extra loads on the internals of the torque convertor.

Where MM4x4's Lockup-Mate is different to other TC lockup mod kits is, it is speed, accelerator pedal position and load sensitive, and does not bypass the in built factory protections of the AT ECU. Long term negative effects are unknown, if there are any, but certainly not cooking the ATF, reducing engine load so coolant and inlet temps are lower and protecting the torque convertor are all positive gains that I can see straight away. The increase in duty cycle of the dampener clutch solenoid may shorten its life but the cost of this is surely offset by the aforementioned benifets and one I am prepared to take.

In another year or 2 my Challenger is out of its 10 year/160,000km engine and driveline warranty so who knows I might even give a chip or a tune a go if I want more power and torque. Never say never!

OJ.
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  #10  
Old 19-07-18
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Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Hi Nick,

Many times I have looked closely at both an engine chip/tune and fitting a TC lockup on my Challenger since new but have always been concerned about the effects on warranty and longevity of the torque convertor. The fact that Mitsubishi choose to limit the engine torque from 400Nm down to 350Nm if a clear indication the TC is the weak link in the system. Research into to mechanicals of the 5 speed Jatco trans, which has been used on various vehicles including earlier Pajero's, and the only common issue I can find is with internal pins coming loose and TC's failing with people that towed heavy and had first generation TC lockup kits without PWM control fitted. Mitsubishi decided to increase the stall ratio of the TC fitted to the Jatco from 1.61:1 to 2.04:1, this is a very high slip TC so the torque multiplication effect is huge. I suspect it is related to over coming the flat spot/turbo lag of the 4D56 CRD engine at low rpm and the 3,000kg towing limit. Unfortunately high slip means high ATF temps and this means a rapid decrease in the performance of the ATF and extra loads on the internals of the torque convertor.

Where MM4x4's Lockup-Mate is different to other TC lockup mod kits is, it is speed, accelerator pedal position and load sensitive, and does not bypass the in built factory protections of the AT ECU. Long term negative effects are unknown, if there are any, but certainly not cooking the ATF, reducing engine load so coolant and inlet temps are lower and protecting the torque convertor are all positive gains that I can see straight away. The increase in duty cycle of the dampener clutch solenoid may shorten its life but the cost of this is surely offset by the aforementioned benifets and one I am prepared to take.

In another year or 2 my Challenger is out of its 10 year/160,000km engine and driveline warranty so who knows I might even give a chip or a tune a go if I want more power and torque. Never say never!

OJ.
I'm pretty sure MM would not cover anything with a lockup mate installed but your welcome to test them.

I don't see how your protecting anything. Actually the opposite as your putting strain on parts not designed for that type of work, gear changes, braking etc. especially if your towing!
I know you have been fixated on the torque converter for many many years now though.

Tuners have been increasing power of factory engines for years with no issues at all as you would know air fuel ratios are out just to meat emission standards.

I still think some of you guys would of been better with a manual though
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