DiD fuel pump issue?

[josh18]

Hey all, I have an 04 NP DiD with about 250k on the clock. It has been great in the 50k or so that I have had it but recently has developed a few strange problems.
The first I noticed was the idle hunting up and down but only with the air con on, and the second being the cruise control surging up and down when cruising at 80km/h in fifth. And this morning at first startup it seemed like it was about to die unless I kept it going with the accelerator just for the first twenty seconds or so. It also puffed out some white looking smoke at the same time. Also it seems to be using a fair bit of fuel but I haven't been paying enough attention to know for sure.
I have tried to do my research, and have done an ECU reset and idle relearn as per the instructions on this forum. The idle does seem better but still does hunt a little with the air con on.
Upon further investigation of the surging cruise control though I'm a little more worried. It is particularly noticeable on this one particular road that has some really gradual undulations. as it hits the undulation you can feel it bog down as normal before the cruise catches up. Then looking out the back I can see black smoke start to blow progressively more for about 3 to 5 seconds, then it will surge forward, catching back up to speed and this is with a big puff of black smoke. Then it clears up and repeats on the next undulation. I've never noticed this surging until lately and have never seen it blow black (or any colour) smoke before. If I try to replicate the same conditions manually ie, bogging down and then slightly accelerating to match the hill it runs fine and does not blow any smoke at all. And if I drop it back to fourth with the cruise on at the same speed it has no issues. The RPM at 80 in fifth is about 1700 or so, right about where it starts to boost, it looks and feels like the pump is adding fuel but its not spooling the turbo or something, but why won't it do it when I try to replicate it with my foot?
Does anyone know a bit more about how the cruise control works, as in does it just actuate the throttle or does it do it somehow else in the pump?
I'm hoping it is not the fuel pump but from doing a fair bit of reading some of my symptoms do sound familiar. From what I have read once they start acting up they usually pack it in pretty quickly, so I guess I'll find out soon enough.
I still keep coming back though to why it will only do it with cruise on and not with the accelerator, but the coughing and farting episode this morning makes me think there is something terminal going on.
Anyway, any advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Josh

[Hill]

Josh
Some of these symptoms could also be partially blocked inlet manifold ie increased fuel consumption and poor idle.

Has the inlet manifold ever been cleaned?

Hill

[josh18]

Hi Hill, thanks for that. No, leaning out the manifold and blocking the EGR has been on my to do list but not done as of yet. I can imagine it's pretty dirty in there but wouldn't have thout the problem would come on all of a sudden?
Cheers
Josh

[josh18]

Re the bad idle, the hunting to me seems to be 'signaled' if you know what I mean, not just generally rough. But I've had no experience with blocked manifolds so don't really know what that sounds like either.
Cheers

[josh18]

I put a new fuel and air filter in it yesterday, seems to go better but still has all the same issues. Its particularly bad when cold and hesitant at low rpm/ low throttle, but still really intermittent. I wil take it to a diesel specialist but am a little hesitant when its still intermittent. Would it have stored codes if it was having issues?
Cheers
Josh

[GHendo]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but my money is on the fuel pump. At 250,000km. your vehicle is right in the window for a pump failure. I was getting a few odd things happening with mine for a while before it packed it in completely. Occasional difficult starting and a bit of surging now and then and odd rev changes. Mine didn’t blow smoke but that can also be a sign as the fuel is not being metered correctly.

Even if it is NOT the pump right now, you are going to have to get it looked at in the near future, so instead of spending money on getting this and that checked, I’d get the pump taken out and overhauled. If the bearing inside is still intact it will cost you a lot less for the overhaul than if you wait for it to disintegrate. It does sound however, as if the bearing has already gone and is causing your problems.

You need to take it to a competent diesel specialist and get them to look at it.

Cheers

Geoff

[josh18]

Thanks GHendo, I have booked it into a diesel specialist up here in Darwin. I will leave it overnight with them so they can drive it when fully cold to experience it at its worst. I know it's an expensive fix if it is the pump but the rest of the car is in such good nick and an an equivalent replacement car worth so much that its worth it, even if it could cost 1/3 to 1/2 the car's value!
And being in that failure window of K's and with us doing some long isolated trips in the future I would feel better with a new pump anyway.
I just hope this is a clear cut case and not one of these I have read that they replaced this, that and the other before finding the fault.
Cheers for the help
Josh

[lukincool]

you may be looking at a couple of things

my cruise control stopped working, there is a recall for the indicator stalk see if that fixes it.
I have replaced my diesel pump 5000 dollars big hurt
also check your solinoids they will do weird shit aswell, I replaced all mine 5 I think.
then all the other stuff clean out egr and all that

[josh18]

Hey guys. I finally have a diagnosis for my paj and it is what we thought, the pump. I don't know how they diagnosed it yet but they haven't removed the pump from the car. I guess they just ran a scan tool on it. But get this, they want $7000 to do the job!
It still drives so Im going to pick it up from them and look at getting a pump and doing it myself. I have a mechanic mate who can get me one cheap. I really wanted to get someone to do the job for me for piece of mind but that price is ridiculous!
I will get myself a manual, but who has done the job before? I am an aircraft mechanic and have lots of tools and can follow a procedure, but am I kidding myself, and / or what should i be worried about during the job? As far as the job goes, on this and other forums I have read from about three hours to six hours to do it. I know doing it myself could easily take triple that but these guys are saying its a HUGE job and need two weeks to do it. I think they're just trying to rob me. They are also urging me to put in new injectors even though Im sure there's nothing wrong with them.
Anyway, rant over, now i need to start researching how to actually do it. Where is a good source for a workshop manual?
Any help/ encouragement would be appreciated at this stage.
Cheers
Josh

[psproule]

You can do the job in under a day. Hardest part is timing it all up. And if you find a cheap source for a replacement pump make sure to let everyone know. Unfortunately you are about to find out that the VRZ is a fairly rare pump and hard to source.

Pat

[Aussie_Dan]

Gday Josh.
Try this link for the factory workshop manual for the engine. It contains a full section on the injector pump:

http://www.lilevo.com/mirage/Manuals/4M41%20Diesel%20Engine%20Workshop%20Manual%20PWEE9409-ABCD%2011B.pdf

Cheers, Dan.

[josh18]

Thanks for that. So they're definitely pulling my chain.
This is one I found, don't know if its the exactly right one though, apparently there are two types?

http://www.dieselcenter.com.au/mitsubishi-diesel-parts/reconditioned-mitsubishi-pajero-4m41-3.2lt-vrz-fuel-pump.html

I'll see what my mechanic mate can do for a new one for me. Trade price on a new one would be similar I would think.
Thanks

[josh18]

Hey Dan that link is awesome, thanks heaps for that.
Cheers

[Vaughan]

Hey guys. That DCA link is about right for price...

Another source for pumps, is AG Diesel in Clayton (Victoria):http://www.agdiesel.com.au

Oz, the owner is really helpful, and knowledgeable. They do a changeover rebuilt pump for $3850.

[GHendo]

Josh, when I got my pump reconditioned by Lismore Diesel, I asked about the injectors and they said there was no reason to worry about them because the pump had gone – but they would check them out when the pump was repaired and back on the vehicle.

I didn’t hear anymore about the injectors so I presumed there wasn’t a problem. I would say these chaps who want to muck with the injectors are either after work or don’t know what they are doing.

Lismore Diesel had my vehicle for about 3 days – they pulled out the pump, rebuilt it on site, replaced it and checked everything. The mechanics you got a quote from were probably allowing time to send the pump away to be rebuilt as there are only a couple of places in Australia who can do this job – Lismore Diesel is one.

Cheers

Geoff