hydrogen fuel

[dbomba]

Browns gas or HHO has been thrown around since the 70s. Some will no doubt swear that it works.
Believers, now like to call it Browns Gas, after Yull Brown. (a bullshit artist in many fields)
Non believers will still call it HHO! HHO! HHO! gas
Reminds me of the famous Energy Polarizer that was sold to the die hards around 1986. Didnt work!!

[bakerboy]

also is HHO not the same as H20? two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom?

[Rocketsurgery]

also is HHO not the same as H20? two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom?

Yes. The idea is that water goes through the electrolysis process and is split into its constituents: H2 and O2 both in gaseous form.

Reaction 2H2O + energy = 2H2 + 02

The Hydrogen and oxygen (HHO or Browns gas - whatever, same stuff although most of the proponents seem to think they are delivering monatomic hydrogen - as in 2 separate 'H' molcules, not the more stable H2 form) is fed into the intake manifold and burnt - supposedly adding power therefore reducing the amount of fuel used.

The argumenty tends to go off the rails when you point out the amount of energy required to split the water in the first place would be massively more than any energy returned from burning the HHO.

So many poeple swear by the devices - usually giving such emirical evidence as " In just one fill I drove an extra 100km on a tank". The manufacturers make all sorts of promises - strangely, none have independently verified proof that these systems work. If these devices works so well, why is that I wonder?

EDIT: This is rediculous! I have had to deliberately mis-spell "@*$#@*$#@*$#@*$#cules" because the software has a problem with the first 5 letters of the word!

[SWB 89]

Bringing back this thread . Who is now using HHO? So many options out there now. Here is an old Vid to start with -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqkHhWUKOU

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HHO-DRY-CELL-Gen-10-2-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-4-CARS-n-TRUCK-/281114756217?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4173bec479#ht_9101wt_1399

Interesting info on this listing from WA

Keen to hear comments. It would be nice to run my diesel on this stuff or partially on this stuff.

[SWB 89]

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxiZXN0aGhvZ2VuZXJhdG9yc3xneDo2YjY1YzZmN2E0NzUwMjY1

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HHO-Hydrogen-Generator-Water4gas-Fuel-Cell-2-Outlet-/170738669072?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c0d15610#ht_694wt_1399

Basic one above.

[scruffy]

Well I'm just a simple person and to my simple mind anything that you add to the combustion process to make it burn better has to result in slightly less throttle thereby giving a better fuel economy figure. The small amount of browns gas manufactured in the onboard system in a car is just enough when added to the petrol to alter the burn rate enough to give a small gain in economy. After all, we are not talking about running the car on large amounts of gas, just a small addition to the petrol. The small amount of energy used by the alternator is really negiable. The small benifits gained outweigh the small negitives in my opinion. The bottom line..........with fuel costing as much as it does and getting dearer, than wouldnt ANY gain in fuel economy be better than no gain????
Like I said, I'm just a simple man with simple ideas but I would also like to reduce my running costs. Isnt this one of the reasons we use Woolies and Coles dockets to get cheaper fuel and running costs? Bob

[SWB 89]

Well said Bob. I'm just hoping to hear of recent experiences with this very easy chemistry idea and agree, anything that saves fuel and gives more bank for buck is worth it, if it is safe.

I'm now wondering of the legal and insurance concerns with a potentially explosive mix.

[SWB 89]

http://www.hho-research.com.au/

[skober]

Pajero 3.8L 2004 fuel savings idea

Hi everyone here on the forum! I was wondering about using the HHO fuel cell in my Pajero. Is here anyone who has any experience with it? I have one large fuel cell suitable for the 3.8L engine with the controller and electronic oxygen sensor bypassing device programmed for Pajero 3.8L petrol.I was testing this fuel cell on the bench and it produces a lot of HHO. I just don't know how much impact it will make on the supply side as this device takes between 15 to 25Amps from the alternator. Should I replace the alternator for a bigger one or leave it like it is. Secondly, I still don't know how to connect the electronic device properly to the electrical circuit? Should I connect it strait to the oxygen sensor (wires) or to the controller's loom? Next problem is to find the most suitable place for the cell itself , dryer and the water container. They should be placed in a safe distance from the heat. I know from the researches on internet that this type of cell I have may save 10 to 40 percent of the fuel. They also can be used on diesel. I think it is worth to try it.

[Darwiniandude]

HHO is a myth, a scam. It will not improve your economy.

In essence, the electricity required to produce sufficient hydrogen from water to make an economy difference would cause more load on the alternator (and therefore, fuel consumption) than the improved economy would return. You don't get something for nothing, there is always a loss.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/4276846

[DaveH]

For my 2c worth I'm a doubting Thomas about injecting hydrogen generated onboard the PJ. From my memory of physics I think it is called the "Law of Conservation of Energy". You cannot get more out than you put in ie the extra load on the alternator would outweigh the extra energy produced by the engine. If anyone has dyno tests showing fuel consumption in l/100Kms at various loads with and without the hydrogen generator operating I would love to see them and be proved wrong. I can accept adding say LPG which is an external source of fuel will have positive benefits.

Back in 1970's I had a 180B and installed a water injection unit. It was a passive device that allowed a small amount of water to be sucked into the carbie. It did work and I got a 6% increase in fuel economy. Water injection is not new as it was used in fighter planes in WW2. The theory is simple. Water @*$#@*$#@*$#@*$#cules are sucked or injected into the combustion cylinder. When the fuel burns the water droplet turns to steam. The water to steam ratio is about 1600:1 thus the compression is increased slightly for no extra fuel. Naturally there is a limit on the amount of water that can be used and it fairly small.

Does anyone know of someone who has a water injector for a turbo diesel? I have my doubts that it would be as effective as a petrol engine as the air intake temp on the diesel is much higher and the water droplets may turn to steam before combustion takes place thereby negating any positive benefit.

[chrisb]

Something similar is a 6 cycle engine
The first 3 are normal then its compression again, water injection for the next cycle, using the same principal as above its so hot the water turns steam for power, then its the exhaust cycle. The energy provided is the unwanted heat that is used instead of rejected through the cooling system