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Fuel and fuel systems Petrol vs Diesel, LPG Conversions, premium fuels, and all that gas

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  #11  
Old 19-09-11
goldnugget goldnugget is offline
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Handy tips, thanks.
I know that LPG you get more for your buck when colder temps are around (early AM). I always have my 8.5 kg lpg cylinders filled first thing in the morning from BCF (I use them on my house for hot water), and I swear I get at least a week extra out of them when filled early morning instead of later in the heat of the day.
Also as far as fuel density, I remember one of the current affairs shows doing tests on pump delivey litres vs real litres, ethonol content etc etc (you know they do these at least once a year), and they showed the diference in fuel quantity when heated and cooled in a controlled environment. I cant remember the percentage in volume change per degrees in temp but if you googled it I'm sure you will find a table somewhere.
As far as fuel cycling....they can do it because the government lets them. I think from what limmited research I had done on this in the past suggests that Australia is one of the only places in the western world ( if not the whole world) where petrol price cycling is allowed to occur, and because they often fall on the majority of pay days, it is in the governments interests as well since the state and fed get so much percentage per litre. Because the government wont stop it, the fuel companies wont either.
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  #12  
Old 19-09-11
Avanner Avanner is offline
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O.K....you are going to get some smart*rse who will dispute anything...but anyway I'll stick my neck out here!

MYTH: Fill up in the morning when it’s cooler: An underground 35,000-gallon tank does not change temperature very much from midnight to midday.

A one degree difference in fuel temperature will make a difference of about a kilometer in a tank fill of 20 US gallons (75 Litres roughly)

The pumps in fuel bowsers and their crude flow meters are most accurate at full flow rates, at a slow rate they will measure unfairly to the customer.

Roy
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  #13  
Old 20-09-11
goldnugget goldnugget is offline
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Here is a consumer watchdog report from the US http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/reso...lUSAJune07.pdf almost half a gallon diference based on the 20 you suggested, but with larger temp diference.
The big issue, as stated in the report...even though there are only a few degrees diference in some cases, there is more of a disparity between wholesale temperature compenstated pricing and retail sale by volume.
Also interesting discussion on this thread http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/reso...lUSAJune07.pdf regards to fuel expansion and temps (particularly page 2 about overflow/vented tanks.
Obviously your location in this wide land of ours will also depend on the actual results that may be recieved.
As far as flow rates and accuracy.....I guess it would depend on the calibration of the pump at various stages...I'm not in the industry so I wouldnt know.

So, in effect, if we ran some radiator/heater hoses through the fuel tank or on the fuel return line, we should be able to go further on a tank because the volume of petrol would expand...but how does (or does it?) affect the octane rating in various temps?
I know ...its late.....goodnight
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  #14  
Old 22-09-11
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dryzoned dryzoned is offline
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All excellent fodder for thought.
If my late night maths is right, wholesale is at ~14'C which might be reasonable for underground storage during most of the year, but with delivery at say 35'C the report suggests an effective ~2% price increase.
Daily price variation is much more volatile?
Aren't vehicle fuel tanks sealed (i.e. the pressure release when you open the cap), so we shouldnt be losing any vapours when closed regardless of the tank being full, half empty, or whatever?

My query though is raised by my LPG service guy who says you get what you pay for. Cheaper LPG often contains more water that leads to premature rusting of the tank. And less fuel economy too. Cheaper petrol similarly has to cost less to the supplier. Probably by less octane?
The nett effect is, I now only accumulate flying points not fuel discounts or I shop at Coles. ( I dont work for any retailers or fuel companies.)

$.02
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  #15  
Old 22-09-11
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woody woody is offline
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This makes for an interesting discussion but we'd probably save more money on petrol by winding up our windows at the end of the day
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  #16  
Old 22-09-11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanner View Post

The pumps in fuel bowsers and their crude flow meters are most accurate at full flow rates, at a slow rate they will measure unfairly to the customer.

Roy
I worked in the industry (Fuel Deliveries) for a while and did'nt know that. Thanks for the tip
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  #17  
Old 28-09-11
puppy puppy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldnugget View Post
.

So, in effect, if we ran some radiator/heater hoses through the fuel tank or on the fuel return line, we should be able to go further on a tank because the volume of petrol would expand...but how does (or does it?) affect the octane rating in various temps?
I know ...its late.....goodnight
i wonder if mister bishy will have waved his wand and done some magic to get the fuel temp where he wants it prior to injection. might just be acheived by those fuel rails sitting close to the engine between the injectors.

its interesting tho because 70 litres in the tank will not always be the same amount of petrol so how does this affect fuel economy figures. perhaps fuel economy should be quoted as 'miles per pound' or for this more modern era 'kilometres per kilogram' or 'kilograms per 100 kilometres'.
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  #18  
Old 27-05-12
Paddymac Paddymac is offline
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Fuel tanks were normally only buried 600mm below ground level. Up here in North Queensland the fuel definitely heats up during the day, definitely need to buy your fuel early in the day
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  #19  
Old 28-05-12
Rendrag Rendrag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avanner View Post
The pumps in fuel bowsers and their crude flow meters are most accurate at full flow rates, at a slow rate they will measure unfairly to the customer.
Really? Hrrm! That might explain why you rock up to a fuel pump which says 'Flow Rate: 5-15L/minute'.. And then spend fifteen minutes with the trigger on the pump pulled all the way in, to put 90L into the car.. Always wondered why the smeg they would wind the thing down to it's lowest flow rate! Maybe they know of this inaccuracy, and are taking advantage of it?
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  #20  
Old 21-01-13
colcam colcam is offline
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Coincidentally there's a bloke in America working for a fuel company and he delivers the exact amount as in Melbourne.

"...Kinder-Morgan Pipeline here in San Jose, CA. We deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period from the pipe line; one day it's diesel, the next day it's jet fuel..."

The following sites have done some research albeit from media sources

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/aut...umping_gas.htm

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/gastips.asp
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