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Bits and Pieces Whatever does not fit into the other catergories.

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  #11  
Old 06-08-19
Greg Grey Grumbly Greg Grey Grumbly is offline
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I note the camera carrying vehicle being overtaken was CB radio equipped. I wonder if the overtaking vehicle was CB equipped and, whether he or she had called up the vehicle in front.

The primary reason I have a CB radio is for safety, to call up the vehicle in front if possible, first to let them know I’m coming around. If I’m being overtaken I’d call up the B Double or whoever is overtaking to acknowledge and inform them That I’ll be backing off when the overtaking vehicle is out and clear, (they are fully out in the overtaking lane) until the overtaking vehicle is well past.

That way overtaking can be done safely and well below critical speeds and both vehicles remain within their operating limits. This is standard procedure for trucks and it’s one I’ve adopted - who wants to have a caravan and tow vehicle attempting an overtake at 100kmk+.
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Last edited by Greg Grey Grumbly; 06-08-19 at 07:19 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-19
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old Jack old Jack is online now
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Comments in "blue font" in your post below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nj swb View Post
Hmmm. Agree!

Critical speed for a (poorly configured) combination my be well below 100km/h, but one of the prevention tips is "never exceed 100 km/h (especially when overtaking)". How does a 100km/h limit help if critical speed is well below 100km/h?
Correct, so unless the critical speed of the vehicle and trailer combination is known, then is even 80kph a safe speed.

Critical speed is related to the ratio between towing vehicle mass and trailer mass, yet "With almost all locally-made caravans that speed is very close (or under) 100 km/h". A blanket statement making no caveats for caravan mass or tow vehicle mass? With the right towing vehicle, any van could have a much higher critical speed. With the wrong towing vehicle, any van could have a much lower critical speed. How can "... all locally-made caravans" have a critical speed "very close (or under) 100 km/h" if the mass of the towing vehicle is so important?
Correct. Not only do you need to know the weight of the tow vehicle but also the wheelbase, rear overhang length and weight distribution of the weight before and after the trailer is in hitched up.

An overhung tow hitch increases down forces on the rear of the towing vehicle, which is "virtually a recipe for swaying", yet inadequate tow ball mass is also bad. So I need a shorter hitch to reduce down force on the towing vehicle, but a heavier tow ball mass to increase it"
Close. The length of the rear overhang compared to the length of the wheelbase of the vehicle determines the leverage factor that when multipled by the towball weight is the actual mass applied to the vehicle and the effect of the change in weight distribution. All this only gives you a static calculation. To get a dynamic stability calculation you need to know the spring and dampening rates of the suspension of both the trailer and the tow vehicle, you need to know the tyre pressure and sidewall rigidity of the tyre's fitted to the vehicle and trailer, the weight distribution and load centres of the vehicle and the trailer, and the side area distribution of the trailer.

And we wonder why your average punter can't get this right? One can only hope the book itself is clearer than the advertorial.
I hope the book will be some what clearer but it cannot be specific for each vehicle and trailer setup..
You see "twitchy" trailers all the time when travelling. I look for the high frequency bounce of the trailer axle and wheels, this is caused by too high or too low tyre pressures for the tyre's fitted. Stiff non-compliant trailer suspension which puts extra dynamic loads on the tyre's. Tail wagging of the trailer is another warning sign to keep your distance. Any setup that has the vehicles rear suspension compressed so the rear mudflaps are almost scraping the road and/or the safety chains dragging on the road, ring alarm bells in my head.

Why I am so observant and concerned?
Unfortunately, when I was in my mid 20's, I was a passenger in a vehicle rollover that was towing a trailer that got a sway up at 90kph. The driver tried to accelerate out of the problem but at about 100kph the trailer jack knifed and flipped the car rolling it 3 full revolutions as the trailer coupling and safety chains failed. Fortunately the first and second revolution were in mid air and the car structure only had to take a single rollover impact on the soft road verge. We where able to walk away with minor whiplash injuries.

The 4m long flat bed aluminium, single axle leaf sprung trailer was loaded with 2x 6m long fibreglass Canadian canoes weighing about 100kg each so all up less than 750kg total but the load was long and overhung the rear of the trailer by several metres. The tow vehicle was a stock 82 Subaru 4wd wagon weighing about 1600kgs loaded with 5 people so combined with a light towball down load it was near its legal GVM and CGM limits. As no one was seriously injured there was not a detailed inquiry or report, and it was put down as just a no cause found accident in the Police report.

OJ.
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  #13  
Old 06-08-19
Mundy55 Mundy55 is offline
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Its my vague understanding, IIRC, that applying the trailer/van's brakes only, via manual activation of the brake controller, can correct the sway before it gets out of control. Is that not so?
However, watching the videos, one would have to be very alert to do it as the sway is starting because by the time the sway is in full swing (pardon the pun?) you'll be too busy just holding on to the steering wheel.
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  #14  
Old 06-08-19
Ian H Ian H is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundy55 View Post
Its my vague understanding, IIRC, that applying the trailer/van's brakes only, via manual activation of the brake controller, can correct the sway before it gets out of control. Is that not so?
However, watching the videos, one would have to be very alert to do it as the sway is starting because by the time the sway is in full swing (pardon the pun?) you'll be too busy just holding on to the steering wheel.
That's correct. Apply the manual brake and hopefully it will stop the sway.

Another tip is to turn the brake controller up to full if you are going to be doing 100k on a highway. The theory is that if you do happen to touch the brakes, the van will brake harder first, rather than push the tug.
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  #15  
Old 06-08-19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundy55 View Post
Its my vague understanding, IIRC, that applying the trailer/van's brakes only, via manual activation of the brake controller, can correct the sway before it gets out of control. Is that not so?
However, watching the videos, one would have to be very alert to do it as the sway is starting because by the time the sway is in full swing (pardon the pun?) you'll be too busy just holding on to the steering wheel.

Applying the trailer brakes will reduce the sway if caught early but it will also reduce the vehicle/trailer overall speed, so in an overtaking situation this could be a problem unless you have no oncoming traffic.

It is amazing how quick it all happens, you only have a few seconds before it the situation is not recoverable!

With modern technology it should be possible to fit ASC independently to a trailer, all that is required id a battery, ECU, Yaw sensor and wheel speed sensor so when a sway is detected the trailer brakes can be automatically applied and released individually on each side of the trailer to correct the imbalance. A visual and audible feedback in the cabin of the tow vehicle could give the driver warning of the ASC intervention.


OJ.
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  #16  
Old 06-08-19
Ian H Ian H is online now
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I think speed is the big problem on this one. Most of the trucks will do the limit so judging by the speed he passes the truck, this guy is really travelling.
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  #17  
Old 06-08-19
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Pajshomoneroguntero Pajshomoneroguntero is offline
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Date on the dashcam Oct 2015??
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  #18  
Old 06-08-19
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Keithyv Keithyv is offline
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Yeah not unusual, I think the current affairs programs like to recycle stories over and over.
Others are right ‘though, the Pajero does seem to be going a fair speed. The poor old gen 3 may have had clapped out shockies and that van is massive. Scary stuff.
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  #19  
Old 06-08-19
BruceandBobbi BruceandBobbi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithyv View Post
Yeah not unusual, I think the current affairs programs like to recycle stories over and over.
Others are right ‘though, the Pajero does seem to be going a fair speed. The poor old gen 3 may have had clapped out shockies and that van is massive. Scary stuff.

Sorry but I can't see multiple newspapers and TV channels all conspiring.
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  #20  
Old 06-08-19
Ian H Ian H is online now
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I'd be backing the dash cam as being right as I doubt a truck would have an incorrect date set. Those stories tend to gather legs and I think they are distributed by an agency to many outlets so maybe they could all have fallen in to the trap ?

I showed this video at a recent 4WD club meet (not Paj club), which is more of the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjsTf88tCos
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