What order upgrade suspension etc

[GiveItAGoGavo]

Hey all,

I want to start modding my 98 Challenger...

Each upgrade is at least $1000 so it has to be done in stages... so I have a few questions...

To start, the changes Im looking at doing are...

Tyres
Suspension + lift
Bullbar/nudgebar (if bullbar is too expensive)..>

That will do it for now I think..

Now in terms of tyres, Im looking at either Cooper STs, or BFG ATs... I am currently on stock 265/70R15 but want to make the move to something bigger... 31x10.5 is the obvious choice but I know I will get a bit more clearance if I go to 32's... I am not sure however, if they will fit, how badly speedo will be out (presently 105 on the speedo is 100 actual), and exactly what sizes need to be ... I believe the rim is 8 inches wide (used a tape measure)...

Ok so once I figure out the tyres... The suspension is also on the books.. I did some reading and the Ironman kit actually gets a pretty good rap from what I read... Foam cell shocks seem to be good... all up around $1300 for a 2 inch lift... any other suggestions on suspension?

Alrighty so once I figure out what to get (or rather, what to save up for to get!), I think suspension should only be done first if it is required to put on larger tyres (if I decide to go with 32s)...

Any input appreciated!

Thanks kindly

[Richo-NT]

A suspension upgrade makes such a huge difference to a car in every respect, on road, off road, ride comfort, load carrying, its the single best upgrade you can make. For this exact same reason you also need to be carefull to make sure you get a kit your happy with. You need to have a serious think about what you want out of your suspension, how much weight you want to carry on trips, etc.

The ironman foam cell stuff is actually pretty good, it is on the cheaper side of things but it is quite a good kit. Could you do better? Yes, but it will cost more, this is what you need to weigh up, are you willing to pay extra for improvements in ride and handling...?

If the tyres you currently have still have a reasonable amount of bite left in them then I would do the suspension first.

In my opinion, don't touch the coopers, they're noisy, offer no grip on road, offer no grip in the wet, stiff ride and the tread gets damaged easily on rocks. I personally would be looking at the BFG's or Goodyears, all depends on what you wanna do again, are you going bush or on the beach for example? Lots of things to consider...

[GiveItAGoGavo]

Hey there, that was quick.

Glad to hear the ironman is a good setup for the price... I dont want to fork out an arm and a leg.. as it stands its going to be at least a month of solid saving before I could ge the suspension alone... I do think I need new tyres.. at the moment I have Nexen ATs on the front (havnt actually been bogged yet and have gone up some slippery steep stuff so I guess thats something in their favour... as is their $150 price)... and Kumho ATs on the back but theyre about ready to be replaced since theyre almost bald... I was thinking about 2 new Nexens for now, just to tide me over since cash is hard now... but then i was trying to weigh up the right order to do things...

I have thought about what weight Im carrying.. I intend on touring, with 2 people.. so I think the Ironman Medium Load setup is ideal, as I believe the "heavy" option is for really decent loads on the back, like a caravan, which I most certainly will not be moving... maybe a trailer now and then for home related stuff but otherwise, it will be loaded with regular camping kit for 2 people...

In terms of tyres, I know this is a bit of a thing thats difficult to find a uniform answer on.. I was warned against Coopers last weekend, but the weekend before that I got them suggested to me..

The BFGs I like, but theyre a bit... square... do they bulge out nicely when theyre deflated? I have heard bad things about BFGs as well.. I think it really depends on the person and how they use it too..>

I will be touring and doing day trips with the club... touring destinations I want to see in the near future are murray-sunset, border track, areas in the high country, otways, etc... so a bit of everything... bit of desert sand in there but also plenty of rocks and mud!

[Richo-NT]

Coopers are about as square as they come, in that respect the BFG's and Coopers are about the same. Any tire actually that is made of a light truck construction is going to be like that, in my opinion its a good thing because the sidewall is the weakest part of the tyre, so you really don't want that coming in contact with the road as its more likely to get punctured.

I still hold the opinion that both the Cooper S/T's and the BFG A/T's are very aggressive for an all terrain, so much so that they are quite noisy and have poor on road grip.. they really aren't much quieter then a mud terrain and have just as little grip... so all the dissadvantages of a muddie without the advantages then! Really have to think about what you want, is the car driven mainly on weekends? If so maybe you should be thinking about a muddie, or alternatively do you drive it every day in which case maybe something less aggressive like Bridgestone or Yokohama A/T's are more appropriate

[nj swb]

$1300 for a 2" suspension lift is ridiculous.

Unless you have a winch in a steel bullbar (i.e. significant extra weight overhanging the front suspension) I would stick with the factory torsion bars, and simply wind them up for lift. Search the forum for "wind torsion" - there should be plenty of information. Rear springs & shocks should be achievable for $800 or less.

Tyres: Other than both being classified as "A/T" I don't believe the BFG A/T and Cooper S/T are comparable. On-road, the BFG is quieter and offers better road-holding. If you're only concerned about off-road performance, the S/T is the better bet.

People love to report S/Ts falling to bits. I didn't have a problem when I had S/Ts, and found they wore really well. My brother recently replaced his Bridgestone A/Ts with S/Ts on his 80 series - can't hear them over the other noises his vehicle makes, and loves their off-road performance. I was pretty impressed by the way they were gripping too.

A square-shouldered tyre will always dig more than a round-shouldered tyre - that's where tyre pressures become important. Get the tyre pressure right, and an A/T will work better than an H/T.

Bullbar vs nudgebar: unless you're only looking for somewhere to mount lights, a nudgebar isn't an option (well, outside the supermarket car park.) If you're serious about off-road driving get a bullbar. You can hit wildlife any time, day or night - and they don't always hit the middle of the vehicle.

Which order? As Richo pointed out, if your tyres have some bite, you could do the suspension first. However, the best suspension isn't worth much if your tyres have no grip.

Bullbar - keep an eye on ebay - pick one up when you can.

[Pickle]

Do the suspension first and then come and see me. We can try a few tyre sizes for you and generally have a chin wag about what you need.
Dave

[GiveItAGoGavo]

I didnt notice the coopers as square...

I still think an aggressive AT is the way I want to go... Everyone I know drives on either STs or BFG ATs and never heard a complaint of road noise... having said that I dont suppose they would complain about their choice

Budget just got stretched further so might get some more cheapy Nexens for now.. to be honest, they have been really really good so far... obviously not in the same class as a BFG but really good for what they are...

Suspension sounds good Dave, I have started looking into it already. I did notice today however, that there is "another" sound which is worrying me... quite noisy rattle when under heavy load.. i.e. 4th uphill... anyway Ill post up another thread on that one and ill follow up when I know what Im doing with the suspension/tyres!

Thanks for the input

[GiveItAGoGavo]

$1300 for a 2" suspension lift is ridiculous.

Unless you have a winch in a steel bullbar (i.e. significant extra weight overhanging the front suspension) I would stick with the factory torsion bars, and simply wind them up for lift. Search the forum for "wind torsion" - there should be plenty of information. Rear springs & shocks should be achievable for $800 or less.

Hmm... I do like saving money, but what about the front shocks?

I do get a bit of "nose dipping" when I brake, and the reverse when I accelerate... I was thinking the 11 year old suspension is due for an upgrade so I thought do the whole lot.. I suppose torsion bars are much of a muchness, and no for now I dont have a steel bullbar with winch (though I would like one in the future, but I cant see that happening for a while)... so skipping the torsion bars but doing all the shocks plus springs, bushes, etc doesnt save me a great deal I think...

Or am I way off?

Also, is it a DIY job? I can figure stuff out pretty well but when springs and such are involved, I get a bit cautious.

[GiveItAGoGavo]

According to pedders, my shockers as well as pretty much every bushing in the system as well as the idler arm need to be replaced... along with readjustment of the wheel bearings and replace the ball joints...

course, they might be over-prescribing but shocks etc gotta be done..

Interesting thing though... went into a 4x4 place today and got told by a young bloke on tthe front that by dialing up the torsion bars, i wont actually get any "lift". Am I wrong in thinking I can simply dial up the torsion bars, get an alignment, redo the shocks and springs and im golden?

if so, then I might get an ironman setup... under 800 like mentioned earlier sounds better.

First its the clutch though!! YIPPEEE

I wanna do the clutch myself but a) dont know how b) dont have a pit or a lift!

4wds and money eh

[M3CRJ-CHALLENGER]

if you luck under the truck towards the rear area of the front seats you will se the torsion bars have a anchor point with a bolt through it there are 2 nuts on top under the upper most nut (this is the lock nut) the if you turn the bolt clockwise this will load the torsion bars more and give the desired lift keep jacking the truck and lowering it down untill the desire lift is reached then repeat on the other side then after a week or so double check heights and amend as needed to level the front l/r takes around 20-30 from getting tools out to packing them away

[GiveItAGoGavo]

if you luck under the truck towards the rear area of the front seats you will se the torsion bars have a anchor point with a bolt through it there are 2 nuts on top under the upper most nut (this is the lock nut) the if you turn the bolt clockwise this will load the torsion bars more and give the desired lift keep jacking the truck and lowering it down untill the desire lift is reached then repeat on the other side then after a week or so double check heights and amend as needed to level the front l/r takes around 20-30 from getting tools out to packing them away

hey,

yeah seems pretty easy to dial it up but a few questions regarding it..

1) will the torsion bars be strong enough? There will be increased load and offroad (even without a bullbar or other accesories), I can imagine the force being really great.. is it enough to snap it? Should I worry about getting new bars?

2) how do I know how far is enough? I know that 40-50mm is about the maximum to go for a few reasons... cant the c.v be at a bad angle if it goes too far? Really not sure how to go about figuring out "how much is enough" or even how far Ive gone once Ive started!

At the moment, I think i might look at lifted shocks, lifted springs (or maybe even just an "add a leaf" kit) and full bush replacement...

I also need to do practically every bushing on the car, so its not going to be particularly cheap since I dont know what other bushes there are... certainly the swaybar...