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  #11  
Old 19-07-18
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Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
I don't see how your protecting anything. Actually the opposite as your putting strain on parts not designed for that type of work, gear changes, braking etc. especially if your towing!
Quite the opposite. Locking the torque converter clutch (TCC) reduces the torque through the transmission because when the TCC is locked the torque multiplication effect is removed. The factory ECU will lock the TCC at full torque (e.g. 3rd gear full power), so it's capable of the load. Makes no difference to brakes.
As for not protecting anything, many a transmission is rebuilt because of failed transmission oil, and the key cause of failure is excessive heat.

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Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
I know you have been fixated on the torque converter for many many years now though.
I think you need to drive a Challenger to know why OJ has been fixated on the torque converter. The car's performance without it is far far better. Transformed.

The NS responds very well to a lockup-mate as well. See this post.

The first NS test car is owned by an engine tuner - for racing cars..and Pajeros. He said it transformed his car when towing, and he's been referring his customer to me for a lockup-kit since.

So lockup-mate:
1. reduces the transmission oil temperature to protect it
2. can improve the engine braking
3. improves the drivability of the vehicle
4. and saves fuel as a side effect.

And you get manual gearbox like performance with gear changes smoother and fast than a manual. Why would we want a manual?
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2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too

Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate or lockup-mate now available for Pajero NS+, Triton MN,MQ, Challenger PB,PC, Prado 150
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  #12  
Old 31-07-18
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Well my Challenger is back after 2 weeks with Marshall and is fitted with a test version of Auto-Mate. Interestingly Marshall said that programing Lockup Mate was easy on the Challenger and hard on the Gen 4 Pajero but the opposite for Auto-Mate, it has been quite a task!

On Saturday afternoon I drove a 100ish km test loop with Marshall with his MUTT connected, down through the southern suburbs, up Willunga Hill which is one of the steepest and longest hills we have in the SA metro area with a 110kph speed limit, then back to the CBD via the hills and the SE freeway. Auto-Mate is a big improvement on the factory AT control but it is not as good as Lockup-Mate because Auto-Mate is reactive to changing drive conditions rather than proactive as Lockup-Mate has the predictive driver input in advance of changing conditions. This is particularly noticeable if you are having a drive rather than a cruise.

On Sunday I did a 225km trip down to the Fleurieu Peninsula, via the suburbs, southern expressway, country undulating and hilly roads, twisty and hilly back dirt roads then returning the same way. This reaffirmed my initial impressions from the Saturday drive, that Auto-Mate provides a more responsive drive than the factory AT program in either "Drive" or "Semi Manual Sport" when driven at a conservative to moderate pace. The gear up changes are not as silky smooth as the factory unlocked TC or as smooth as a correctly timed up change with Lockup-Mate but smoother than an incorrectly timed gear change with Lockup-Mate. Down changes are good and there is very minimal shift hunting between gears as the load varies, also as the TC is locked you can feel the additional engine braking on deceleration. Up the pace and the Auto-Mate gear changes are as good as Lockup-Mate but the timing of up and down gear changes is reactive to programming rather than reactive to proactive driver input so I prefer the extra control and engine braking I get from using Lockup-Mate. Gone is the highly reactive down change and the TC unlocking that resulted in high rpm and loss of drive when accelerating out of corners or up hills, as is the over reliance on the brakes when slowing down. It is highly unlikely that anyone wanting to have a more spirited drive would use Auto-Mate over Lockup-Mate as Auto-Mate has the Lockup-Mate function availble just by using the paddle shifts or manual shift of the gear selector.

Today I did my normal 12km commute each way to work and back using Auto-Mate, through suburban morning and evening traffic. A more satisfiying drive than using the factory program in "D" as Auto-Mate prevents the early up changes and late down changes of the factory program. 5th gear does not engage until to 75kph so the engine does not labour at 60kph in 5th, 4th gear up change is at 55kph so you are in 3rd with the TC locked up at 50kph therefore the engine is more responsive. On deceleration the trans drops down to 2nd TC locked and does not change back to 1st TC unlocked until you are almost stopped so less braking is required when coming to a stop. Timing of the up change, at low to medium accelerator pedal position, from 2nd to 3rd still needs some more fine tuning so this weekend I will fit a voltmeter to the accelerator pedal sender unit so I can accurately record accelerator position and work with Marshall on this gear change profile over the next few weeks.

Hopefully in 2 weeks time we will start doing tow tests, after all this was the original reason for the development of Lockup-Mate and Auto-Mate.

OJ.
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  #13  
Old 31-07-18
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Hi OJ,
Thank you for the update.
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  #14  
Old 31-07-18
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Thanks for the summary OJ.


I'd be interested to hear from owners who already have Lockup-mate installed. I've found the timing (ie RPM & amount of pedal) when you choose to change gears (locked and using SPORT mode) makes a big difference in OJ's challenger on how smooth the gear change is.
I'm curious if this is normal for the Challenger or a bit unique to his particular car.

The Pajero, by contrast, has much smoother gear changes - hence why the challenger has been trickier to tune to get nicer gear changes.
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2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, ARB BBar | OME 2" lift | Airbags | Safari snorkel | GME UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | TPMS | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-mate
2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too

Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate or lockup-mate now available for Pajero NS+, Triton MN,MQ, Challenger PB,PC, Prado 150
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  #15  
Old 16-08-18
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I am getting email and PM inquiries on AM8 progress, so here is an up to date report;


I have had Auto-Mate fitted for 3 weeks (about 1,500kms) so it is early days, the prototype program is for on-road and not towing, and is pretty good but it does need so fine tuning in my opinion. I have tested it in the city, suburbs, freeway/expressway, country driving and hills and it is far better than either the factory "Drive" or "Sports Mode" but it is not as good as LM8 (if operated correctly), especially when driving through the hills and want a performance drive experience, and it cannot be because it is reactive to conditions that have already occurred rather than reactive to driver command.



Hopefully I will catch up with Marshal for a "drive and tow test afternoon" this weekend, where we can make the final adjustments to the on-road mode and commence tow testing. Tow testing will be with 1800kg dual axle trailer through city/suburbs, freeway/expressway, hills and country roads. We will also need another day to do the off-road calibration for low range if we think having an Auto-Mate Off-road function is worthwhile.


We both have full-time jobs that require 50 to 70 hours a week and some interstate/overseas travel, then try to slot in some family commitments to keep the families happy and we run out of 1/2 day blocks which we need for testing and validation.

The programing of Lockup Mate was much easier than Auto-Mate for the Challenger/Triton according to Marshal. Where as the Gen 4 Pajero was the opposite way and Marshal is still trying to sort some issues out with Lockup Mate but Auto Mate is fantastic in the Gen 4.

Can we finish testing by the end of August???

Maybe, if all goes well.


Regards, OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
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  #16  
Old 25-08-18
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Default auto-mate progress update

Auto-mate progress update

Last weekend OJ and I spent half the day and evening testing and fine tuning auto-mate gear shift points. Gear changes are now much smoother.

We also took the opportunity to conduct towing tests. auto-mate performed very well, and we confirmed the gear shift profile works equally well regardless of having a tow load or not.

We also did a test up the South East freeway in Adelaide with a heavy trailer. This is a 7km steep and steady climb.

Great results! I've attached the test report. The same results can be expected with lockup-mate and auto-mate.

The remaining work to complete auto-mate is:
1. low-range 4WD performance testing
2. Switching between SPORT and DRIVE modes when using paddle shift or selecting SPORT on the shift lever. When in SPORT mode it operates the same as lockup-mate.
3. Finalise for production - installation manuals etc.

Yes - it's taking a bit longer than we'd hoped but good progress is being made.

The plan is to sell 5 or so units as a beta release to solicit feedback and confirm consistent operation in a variety of cars followed a bit later by the full release.
Let me know if you're interest in the beta release program. I'm after a variety of vehicle setups, from stock to modified. Prefer Adelaide based, but not essential.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Freeway test 20Aug18.pdf (348.2 KB, 58 views)
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2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, ARB BBar | OME 2" lift | Airbags | Safari snorkel | GME UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | TPMS | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-mate
2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too

Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate or lockup-mate now available for Pajero NS+, Triton MN,MQ, Challenger PB,PC, Prado 150
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  #17  
Old 25-08-18
Gusey Gusey is offline
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Hi m_and_m, really glad to see the progress you and OJ have made with your products, I am looking forward to finally fitting your Automate and improving the gearbox performance.

I would be happy to participate in the beta testing but may be a little far away, I reside in Townsville.

I can offer a vehicle that has a Roo Systems touring and towing remap, lift kit with 265 x 75 R16 A/T's, other than that the only added weight includes Smart Bart, Rhino Rack ,tow bar, fridge and recovery gear. (it's all below.)

All good if I am am not selected, still will be lining up for the release to purchase the kit.
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  #18  
Old 27-08-18
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I have had another week of daily commuting and a country trip this last weekend to assess the changes Marshall made to Auto-Mate the weekend before when we did some more tuning and tow testing with a 1900kg trailer. In regards to the tow tests Auto-Mate performs just as well up long steep hills as Lockup Mate and almost as good on long descents but Lockup Mate is still a little better as you can selected a lower locked gear for more engine braking. Both are so far in front of the factory program it is like driving a different car!

So now the Challenger is back with Marshall for the fitting of the first production Auto-Mate rather than the test unit, plus also some more fine tuning to the on road program. I should get it back in a few weeks so I can continue testing and can compare results and feedback with those that are going to be involved in the beta testing phase of the pre-release production units.

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
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  #19  
Old 28-08-18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
I have had another week of daily commuting and a country trip this last weekend to assess the changes Marshall made to Auto-Mate the weekend before when we did some more tuning and tow testing with a 1900kg trailer. In regards to the tow tests Auto-Mate performs just as well up long steep hills as Lockup Mate and almost as good on long descents but Lockup Mate is still a little better as you can selected a lower locked gear for more engine braking. Both are so far in front of the factory program it is like driving a different car!

So now the Challenger is back with Marshall for the fitting of the first production Auto-Mate rather than the test unit, plus also some more fine tuning to the on road program. I should get it back in a few weeks so I can continue testing and can compare results and feedback with those that are going to be involved in the beta testing phase of the pre-release production units.

OJ.



Spending way too much time sorting out this unit for the Challenger! Marshall needs to take time off work and concentrate solely on the upgrade for the Pajero so 2nd gear is all good!.




Only joking.....Those with the Challenger would be silly not to do this mod as soon as it is released. The Pajero which has not got the programming nuances of the Challenger, is so much more better with the addition of the kit. My mate just couldnt believe the difference once he installed it into his NS Pajero. After the EGR block and 2nd filter this would be the mod to put on your "definitely install" list. Well done you mob for getting involved and making this happen.
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  #20  
Old 28-08-18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicko1 View Post
Spending way too much time sorting out this unit for the Challenger! Marshall needs to take time off work and concentrate solely on the upgrade for the Pajero so 2nd gear is all good!.




Only joking.....Those with the Challenger would be silly not to do this mod as soon as it is released.
You are not that far off the mark Dicko!
Problem is the Master Programming Module has been fitted to my car so Marshall has not been unable to test a few ideas he has about solving the Gen 4, 2nd gear issue.
So installing a pre production Auto Mate module in my Challenger will free up the Master Programming Module for testing solutions, also what we have learned from trying to solve the Challenger issues is knowledge that could help solve the 2nd gear issue.

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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