Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum

Go Back   Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum > General Information > Techniques

Techniques Winching - Recoveries - Chainsaw Safety - Proper aproach to 4wding etc

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16-07-18
Plez Plez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: South East QLD
Posts: 51
Default Are snatch straps themselves dangerous to people inside of vehicles?

Hey all, just signed away my life in a new (to me) Pajero. Over the last few weeks I’ve been reading a lot here so I’m confident with what I’m getting into re the car itself but I’m a little apprehensive about some things re: off-roading.

Since I was young I’ve been 4wding with my mates family, and driven some of their vehicles but when I was driving I’ve not been stuck.

So my question is as in the title, is the strap itself with no missile dangerous for people inside the car? I really don’t want to get killed by a flying shackle, let alone a flying bit of nylon.

Oh and sub question, do dampeners do anything when it comes to a recovery point failure? I can’t see them stopping a missile.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16-07-18
mrbitchi's Avatar
mrbitchi mrbitchi is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plez View Post
Hey all, just signed away my life in a new (to me) Pajero. Over the last few weeks Iíve been reading a lot here so Iím confident with what Iím getting into re the car itself but Iím a little apprehensive about some things re: off-roading.

Since I was young Iíve been 4wding with my mates family, and driven some of their vehicles but when I was driving Iíve not been stuck.

So my question is as in the title, is the strap itself with no missile dangerous for people inside the car? I really donít want to get killed by a flying shackle, let alone a flying bit of nylon.

Oh and sub question, do dampeners do anything when it comes to a recovery point failure? I canít see them stopping a missile.
Yes the strap can still hurt but it's normally not the strap that lets go, it's the attachment points.

1. ALWAYS use RATED recovery points.
2. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use a towball.
3. Use a bridle.
4. Use soft shackles.
5. Use a dampener or 2.
6. Recover at the LOWEST possible speed. If you think a recovery with a snatch strap requires a balls and all approach then DON"T DO IT! Break out the shovel or winch instead.
7. 4WD Queensland now recommends that a snatch strap only be used as a LAST RESORT.

Recoveries are bloody dangerous so take care. If you don't know how to do them safely, join a 4WD club and get some instruction.
__________________
Cheers, John.
LC200 V8 goodness

MY12 LC200 GXL 4.5Lt V8 twin turbo, GVM upgrade, ARB bar, Warn winch, Outback Acc rear bar and dual carrier, TJM sidesteps, Bushskinz, Long Ranger 180Lt tank, Black Widow drawers, cargo barrier, Polaris Awning, +++
Ex - NM auto, 2"Kings, Bilsteins, Buckshots, Wildcat headers, 2.75" Mandrel bent exhaust, Injected LPG, Smartbar, Scraper bar, Bushskinz, Custom steps, Dual Batteries, Breathers, Black Widow drawers, Polaris Awning.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16-07-18
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,775
Default

Snatch recoveries are best used for sand or mud and not rocks.

General safety rule is no bystanders within 1.5x the total length of the strap and no passengers inside both vehicles. For light duty recoveries which involve basic a tow with a little tug then the use of a single recovery point and no dampener is ok but if it is a medium to heavy snatch recovery then use a bridle across the 2 recovery points where there is not a heavy duty towbar hitch receiver to attach to. DO NOT use a towball.

Most straps need a rest for an hour or so if not overnight because after 3 medium to hard pulls as they lose their elasticity with every pull. A twisted and/or wet strap has a lower breaking point. Always pull as straight as possible, pulling at an angle can result is suspension and steering damage and even vehicle roll over.

Dampeners do work if they are heavy and firmly attached to the centre of the strap, however most dampeners you buy are not heavy enough or secure enough to work correctly but they do look the goods.

You have to assess the level of force likely to be required, remove some sand/mud from the front of the tyres, inserting recovery tracks in the front of the wheels of the bogged vehicle will also lessens the force required to extract the bogged vehicle.

Use a strap that is rated to about 2.5x the weight of the bogged vehicle. It is off road etiquette to use your strap if you are bogged however if you are the person doing the pulling and you are not happy with the quality of the other persons recovery gear and you still want to assist then use your own. There are plenty of Cowboys around that when they see a stuck 4wd want to give a enormous snatch when most times these are not required.

OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17-07-18
Plez Plez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: South East QLD
Posts: 51
Default

Thanks for the input guys, puts my mind at ease a bit. It’s one of those things you don’t really think about normally. In hindsight I’ve been around plenty of unsafe snatch’s. Not in the vehicles but a snatch gone wrong would mess up a kid that’s for sure.

I’ve basically decided I’ll always do the bridle and put the snatch in the center of it when recovering from the front and I’ll get a shackle hitch for my towbar.

Is winching basically the same precautions? Appropriate gear, good anchors, etc etc? My mates have winches on their cars but I don’t think I’ve ever seen them used.

In my experience so far the order of recovery is usually, try to get out, MAXX tracks, then snatch, then winch. Winch should probably be before snatch?
Out snatching was more like towing than snatching though, take up the slack and then just give it a little bit of power to help.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17-07-18
mrbitchi's Avatar
mrbitchi mrbitchi is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,557
Default

Yes you need to use all the same precautions when winching.

The problem when snatching is the ENORMOUS forces that come into play. Winching (especially when using Dyneema rope) is much safer as the forces are much more gradual and therefore controllable. If a Dyneema rope snaps it will simply drop to the ground as it does not stretch and store energy like a snatch strap. Wire winch rope will stretch and recoil just like a snatch strap.

Most people go for the snatch strap first as it's usually much quicker to set up than a winch operation and everybody has one, whereas not everyone has a winch, or the know how to use one safely.
__________________
Cheers, John.
LC200 V8 goodness

MY12 LC200 GXL 4.5Lt V8 twin turbo, GVM upgrade, ARB bar, Warn winch, Outback Acc rear bar and dual carrier, TJM sidesteps, Bushskinz, Long Ranger 180Lt tank, Black Widow drawers, cargo barrier, Polaris Awning, +++
Ex - NM auto, 2"Kings, Bilsteins, Buckshots, Wildcat headers, 2.75" Mandrel bent exhaust, Injected LPG, Smartbar, Scraper bar, Bushskinz, Custom steps, Dual Batteries, Breathers, Black Widow drawers, Polaris Awning.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17-07-18
nj swb's Avatar
nj swb nj swb is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 5,651
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plez View Post
In my experience so far the order of recovery is usually, try to get out, MAXX tracks, then snatch, then winch. Winch should probably be before snatch?
Out snatching was more like towing than snatching though, take up the slack and then just give it a little bit of power to help.
I think there has been a massive over-reaction to the dangers of snatching. Like any tool or technique, it is incredibly useful, and quite safe when done properly. It's only dangerous when used improperly. The "enormous forces" only come with excess momentum - improper technique, trying too hard. Done properly, snatch forces aren't huge - certainly lower than the forces that can be generated by a 9000lb winch.

Usually, the best bet is stop. Trying too hard to drive out can only make things worse, by burying the vehicle deeper. The sooner you stop and evaluate, the easier it is likely to be.

Whatever has happened, think "dig". Whether you ultimately snatch, winch or use Maxtrax to extricate the vehicle, it's almost certain that digging will help. Don't be lazy - be prepared to dig.

Sometimes, depending on the circumstances, a little bit of digging may be all that's required before the vehicle can drive out - remembering that back up and try again may be the best way forward.

If you haven't buried yourself too deep, snatch may be the simplest and easiest solution, and doesn't need to be dangerous. Depending on circumstances, such as how badly stuck, and how easily another vehicle can be appropriately positioned to snatch. Have a look at what's around the wheels, thinking "dig". A little bit of digging can sometimes make a significant difference to a snatch recovery. As a few have stated, start gently, think tow rather than tug.

Maxtrax are undoubtedly incredibly versatile, and can be used to conquer obstacles where snatching isn't an option, and winching would be more time-consuming. As a traction aid, they're not relying on application of external force, like snatching or winching. Slow & controlled. And digging will almost certainly be involved.

Winching also has it's place, and can be used for recoveries for which no other solution is possible. But, unless you're competing in a winch challenge, winching should be a slow, careful and considered operation - and, like snatching, is fraught with dangers for the untrained, or foolish. Ultimately, to move the vehicle, the tyres should roll. Think about where the tyres will roll, and think "dig", to make it easier on the winch.
__________________
NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 Toyo MT, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, 3.15 gears, LRA Aux tank, bullbar, winch, lights, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

Scorpro Explorer Box
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17-07-18
Allan2 Allan2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mid Nort Coast, NSW
Posts: 369
Default

Try the simple things first if in sand lower your tyre pressures I have gone down as far as 8 PSI and driven out just don't turn your vehicle tightly or the tyres can separate from the rim and quickly deflate. Also be aware of heat generation with deflated tyres keep your speed down. I always use a damper (old blanket) either winching or using a snatch strap. Carry a compressor and reinflate the tyres when back on a hard surface.
Regards Allan.
__________________
2009 NT, 3.2 Auto, D/Lights & Light Bar, EGR mod, Sump and Inter Cooler Guards, Tow Bar, Bog Standard.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18-07-18
Pajshomoneroguntero's Avatar
Pajshomoneroguntero Pajshomoneroguntero is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nj swb View Post
I think there has been a massive over-reaction to the dangers of snatching. Like any tool or technique, it is incredibly useful, and quite safe when done properly. It's only dangerous when used improperly. The "enormous forces" only come with excess momentum - improper technique, trying too hard. Done properly, snatch forces aren't huge - certainly lower than the forces that can be generated by a 9000lb winch.

Usually, the best bet is stop. Trying too hard to drive out can only make things worse, by burying the vehicle deeper. The sooner you stop and evaluate, the easier it is likely to be.

Whatever has happened, think "dig". Whether you ultimately snatch, winch or use Maxtrax to extricate the vehicle, it's almost certain that digging will help. Don't be lazy - be prepared to dig.

Sometimes, depending on the circumstances, a little bit of digging may be all that's required before the vehicle can drive out - remembering that back up and try again may be the best way forward.

If you haven't buried yourself too deep, snatch may be the simplest and easiest solution, and doesn't need to be dangerous. Depending on circumstances, such as how badly stuck, and how easily another vehicle can be appropriately positioned to snatch. Have a look at what's around the wheels, thinking "dig". A little bit of digging can sometimes make a significant difference to a snatch recovery. As a few have stated, start gently, think tow rather than tug.

Maxtrax are undoubtedly incredibly versatile, and can be used to conquer obstacles where snatching isn't an option, and winching would be more time-consuming. As a traction aid, they're not relying on application of external force, like snatching or winching. Slow & controlled. And digging will almost certainly be involved.

Winching also has it's place, and can be used for recoveries for which no other solution is possible. But, unless you're competing in a winch challenge, winching should be a slow, careful and considered operation - and, like snatching, is fraught with dangers for the untrained, or foolish. Ultimately, to move the vehicle, the tyres should roll. Think about where the tyres will roll, and think "dig", to make it easier on the winch.

Good advice nj swb
If I could add anything if I may it would be to prepare to dig
__________________
NX GLS MY16 Auto: MM Towbar | Spare Lift Kit | Cooper ST MAXX 265/65R17 | SPVi Module mk3.1 | Autosafe Half Cargo Barrier | Torque Pro App | Donaldson 3um 2ndry Fuel Filter | Diff Breathers | GME4500 UHF | Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform | Roley's Rear Bash Plate | Bushskinz Underbody Protection | Airtec Snorkel | Onboard Compressor | Awning | ARB Deluxe Bar | Lightbar | Sherpa4x4 Winch | Bushskinz Sidesteps | Masten TPMS

Build Thread
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18-07-18
sharkcaver's Avatar
sharkcaver sharkcaver is online now
"2000"+ Valued Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,070
Send a message via MSN to sharkcaver Send a message via Skype™ to sharkcaver
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nj swb View Post
I think there has been a massive over-reaction to the dangers of snatching.
I think there has been a massive reaction to the numpties we now see regularly performing a dodgy snatch. The few reported deaths of late shouldn't be an over reaction, but an eye opener for the less informed. Disregard these instances at your own peril.

Digging, maxtrax and gentle snatching was all required here:

https://youtu.be/iHmswSez9a8
__________________
Gone to a new home ...MY04 NP GLS Man Di-D, Look after her..


MY16 NX GLX5, Dobinson's HD springs + MRR shocks + Firestone airbags, 17" Toyo Opats, XXX bar, Dominator winch + IB500 relay, Full Bushskinz kit, Rhino track mount, 7" led spots, 23" light bar, SPV block, Ultragauge, Donaldson secondary filter, LRA 81L aux, 105AGM in rear + Projecta IDC25, 2 tier rear shelf + slide, ARB on board compressor, 2.5 x 3.0 awning

NX build


My Journeys
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18-07-18
Keithyv's Avatar
Keithyv Keithyv is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Perth
Posts: 440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcaver View Post
I think there has been a massive reaction to the numpties we now see regularly performing a dodgy snatch. The few reported deaths of late shouldn't be an over reaction, but an eye opener for the less informed. Disregard these instances at your own peril.

Digging, maxtrax and gentle snatching was all required here:

https://youtu.be/iHmswSez9a8
I can see why they wanted to snatch it out though - that water was pretty close!

I wonder what tyre pressure the Paj was running?
Either way, they got too damn close to the water for my liking...
Paj driver a bit too happy on the throttle too, pretty much dig themselves back in at 00:45
__________________
2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with Light Force Spotties. Provent catch can. LED interior lights.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
8000kg Snatch Straps ticky Bits and Pieces 14 24-05-16 10:28 AM
RECOVERY GEAR - Snatch Straps ticky Bits and Pieces 6 28-02-16 07:26 AM
4WD Supacentre - Snatch Straps RG76 General Info 1 10-11-14 08:02 PM
Joining Snatch Straps - is it OK??? tg123 Techniques 19 15-08-09 05:57 PM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 07:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.