Another Oil Question

[jimako]

Hi Guys

Whats the difference between engine oils such as:
Penrite HPR 5, which says is compatible with Petrol, LPG and Diesel.
compared to
Penrite HPR 5 Diesel, which contains the word Diesel in the name of it.

It says they both compatible with Diesel, but one of them has Diesel in the name.
Ive only used Penrite as an example.

Would one be better for a Diesel engine then the other and why ?

[sharkcaver]

Hi Guys

Whats the difference between engine oils such as:
Penrite HPR 5, which says is compatible with Petrol, LPG and Diesel.
compared to
Penrite HPR 5 Diesel, which contains the word Diesel in the name of it.

It says they both compatible with Diesel, but one of them has Diesel in the name.
Ive only used Penrite as an example.

Would one be better for a Diesel engine then the other and why ?

Without looking up the specs, I would say the hprD5 has a higher TBN and possibly greater zinc count too. Whilst the HPR 5 may be dual rated, the diesel product will be more specifically designed for a diesel with a greater detergent capacity for holding soot in suspension, something not as important in a petrol engine. You can download the specs from the penrite site and see yourself. You could also shoot them an email with the above question, they seem to be pretty responsive.

For the record, I'm running HPR D10 in mine. Used oil analysis showed me that changing my oil at 7.5K was far too early. I've now extended my changes to 10K and may with further analysis, push it out to 15K. That one used oil analysis has paid for itself on one oil change.

[jimako]

Without looking up the specs, I would say the hprD5 has a higher TBN and possibly greater zinc count too. Whilst the HPR 5 may be dual rated, the diesel product will be more specifically designed for a diesel with a greater detergent capacity for holding soot in suspension, something not as important in a petrol engine. You can download the specs from the penrite site and see yourself. You could also shoot them an email with the above question, they seem to be pretty responsive.

For the record, I'm running HPR D10 in mine. Used oil analysis showed me that changing my oil at 7.5K was far too early. I've now extended my changes to 10K and may with further analysis, push it out to 15K. That one used oil analysis has paid for itself on one oil change.

Thanks for your reply.

Here is a response i just got from Penrite, and im still confused.

Hi Jim,

Great question!, When you see things like Petrol or Diesel listed on the main label then when you read further down that this is suitable for other fuels like LPG (diesel and petrol) this is due to the additives that the oil has.

In most cases our oils will be suitable for most fuel types however we have recently changed some of our labels to say “Petrol” or “Diesel” not both as one oil will meet far more specification for the individual fuel type than another.

One of the specifications that our oils meet to make it suitable for petrol and diesel fuels is API (American Petroleum Institute) this has a petrol and diesel side to it here is an example

This is a common petrol specification API SN/CF this reads that it’s the highest API petrol specification then the other side of this being CF is an older Diesel specification, the diesel specifications are the same they meet a high diesel specification and a lower petrol specification I.E. API CI-4/SL (high diesel/low petrol)

With API specifications the higher the specification the better as the specification is always more advanced than the last so it will give better fuel economy, protection etc.

Regards

Jessi

[Dicko1]

Thanks for your reply.

Here is a response i just got from Penrite, and im still confused.

Hi Jim,

Great question!, When you see things like Petrol or Diesel listed on the main label then when you read further down that this is suitable for other fuels like LPG (diesel and petrol) this is due to the additives that the oil has.

In most cases our oils will be suitable for most fuel types however we have recently changed some of our labels to say “Petrol” or “Diesel” not both as one oil will meet far more specification for the individual fuel type than another.

One of the specifications that our oils meet to make it suitable for petrol and diesel fuels is API (American Petroleum Institute) this has a petrol and diesel side to it here is an example

This is a common petrol specification API SN/CF this reads that it’s the highest API petrol specification then the other side of this being CF is an older Diesel specification, the diesel specifications are the same they meet a high diesel specification and a lower petrol specification I.E. API CI-4/SL (high diesel/low petrol)

With API specifications the higher the specification the better as the specification is always more advanced than the last so it will give better fuel economy, protection etc.

Regards

Jessi

Reply says that to stop confusion they have oils labelled for either petrol or diesel. Whichever one it is labelled for, means that this type of motor will get the best benefits from the oil. Doesn't mean oil cant be used in both. Just select the one that says suitable for diesel and you will have no worries and motor may gain a slight advantage over a "one oil all does all".

[sharkcaver]

Thanks for your reply.

Here is a response i just got from Penrite, and im still confused.

Hi Jim,

Great question!, When you see things like Petrol or Diesel listed on the main label then when you read further down that this is suitable for other fuels like LPG (diesel and petrol) this is due to the additives that the oil has.

In most cases our oils will be suitable for most fuel types however we have recently changed some of our labels to say “Petrol” or “Diesel” not both as one oil will meet far more specification for the individual fuel type than another.

One of the specifications that our oils meet to make it suitable for petrol and diesel fuels is API (American Petroleum Institute) this has a petrol and diesel side to it here is an example

This is a common petrol specification API SN/CF this reads that it’s the highest API petrol specification then the other side of this being CF is an older Diesel specification, the diesel specifications are the same they meet a high diesel specification and a lower petrol specification I.E. API CI-4/SL (high diesel/low petrol)

With API specifications the higher the specification the better as the specification is always more advanced than the last so it will give better fuel economy, protection etc.

Regards

Jessi

The API rating - That just tells you the standard of the additive package - and for most of us, means nothing. The American Petroleum Institute (API) just create a standard and manufacturers have their oil tested to see if it meets this standard - standard SN/CF in the above example. They have a list of tests it needs to exceed to meet this rating. I wouldn't worry too much about the API rating. Your question was, what was the difference between HPR5 and HPR D5.

Like I said, diesel oils have a greater amount of detergent (higher TBN), zinc and phosphorous than required for petrol oils for a start.

HPR 5:

Zinc, Mass % 0.124
Phosphorus, Mass % 0.113
Sulphated Ash, Mass % 1.28
Total Base Number (TBN) 10.4

It is suitable for use in LPG and light duty diesel engines where API CF, ACEAA3/B3
and A3/B4 is recommended.

It is NOT suitable for use in diesels fitted with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) that require an ACEA C grade Low-SAPS (Sulphated Ash,Phosphorus & Sulphur) engine oil.

Compared to HPR D5:

Ca content, Mass % 0.363
Zinc, Mass % 0.109
Phosphorus, Mass % 0.099
Sulphated Ash, Mass % 1.4
Total Base Number (TBN) 11.1

HPR Diesel 5 is designed for use in modern 4, 6 & 8+ cylinder multi cam, multi valve (Including VVT), naturallyaspirated, supercharged, turbocharged common rail and direct injection engines. It is also suitable for dieselengines that are equipped with hydraulically actuated injector units.

HPR Diesel 5 is NOT recommended for use in diesels fitted with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) that require an ACEA C grade Low-Mid SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus & Sulphur) engine oil. We recommend checking the recommendation guide for the correct grade and specification.

HPR Diesel 5 is suitable for use in diesel engines in passenger cars, motorcycles, 4WDs, light & heavy duty commercial engines in trucks, tractors, agricultural & earthmoving equipment as well as industrial equipment such as fork lifts & stationary engines. It can be used with Diesel & Petrol/E10/LPG (Dual Fuel). Suitable for petrol and LPG engines as a mixed fleet oil and can be used in motorcycles with wet clutches.

So the above values for zinc and phosphorus are lower in the HPR D5, contary to what I said. but the TBN is greater, like I said, no doubt due to the addition of calcium.

So, I suspect if API ratings have you baffled, my waffle above just compounded your issue exponentially.

You do not state what vehicle we are talking about here. Penrite's product selector recommends for the Gen 4:
(EDIT: just read your sig - 2013 nw)

HPR D10 as first choice, or enviro + C1 for the MY17 Pajero due to its fitment with DPF.


Using HPR 5 would be a bonus for me. I'm using that product in 2 vehicles here at home. However, i wanted a more dedicated product for my NX and chose HPR D10, as per penrites recommendation. HPR 5 is also a lot more expensive than HPR D10.

So Like I said, ask Penrite why you should choose HPR D5 over HPR 5. All I can give you is technical fluff that is going to bewilder you more. If that's the question you asked, and all you got back was API ratings, then you need to ask again, and ask for a proper answer why?

[Pablo Sutter]

It's clear to me now, thanks! I'd like to know more about enhanced sign up offers here.

[erad]

Years ago, I asked the same questions from an oil company representative. I was concerned about using regular oils for an LPG engine. He told me that the gas oil had a slightly higher alkaline additive to counter the acidic by-products burning LPG. He recommended to me that I change the oil frequently and to use regular oil because it was cheaper. I changed the oil every 5000 km. Oils are cheap - engines are not.

He also said that the diesel oils had a higher detergent concentration to hold the soot particles in suspension (hence the oil goes black), rather than letting the soot settle out as a sludge in the sump.