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Torque Convertor Lockup kits, Good or Bad technical discussion.

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  • Dicko1
    Valued Member
    • Dec 2014
    • 7610
    • Cairns, FNQ

    Originally posted by Keithyv View Post
    After 3 months or so of running my lockup mate with default settings I bumped up (down?) the threshold so it locks up later. All round improvement I think. Before it would lockup at 70 or 80 km/h when the engine had not yet warmed up and lugged a bit.

    I dont turn mine on until the engine temp hits 87.....and leave it off in the 60kph zones..
    Dicko. FNQ

    2014 NW with all the usual stuff plus more.

    TIME....1000 times more valuable than money

    Comment

    • Keithyv
      Valued Member
      • May 2018
      • 1347
      • Perth

      Originally posted by old Jack View Post
      Hi Keith,

      I assume you mean Auto Mate and not Lockup Mate, as Lockup Mate relies on the driver to do the gear up and down changes unless the engine rpm is outside the safe parameters. Auto Mate has a shift offset function that can either delay or advance the shift changes. On the Challenger setting 4 is the default with standard 775mm diameter tyres but I run setting 7 as I have 813mm diameter tyres.

      Neither Lockup Mate or Auto Mate should engage until the ATF is 40C on the Challenger, not sure what the temp is for the Gen 4.

      OJ.
      Nope I mean lockup mate.
      Driving in D
      Slight sweeping up-hill in a 80 km/h zone just after I leave home.

      Lockup mate locked the TC while doing 80 or so while car is in 5th.
      Stock no way the TC would lock in those circumstances.
      Just caused a bit of a 'lug' or harshness..
      Last edited by Keithyv; 08-04-20, 08:35 PM.
      2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
      MM Lockup mate. King KCRS-35 rear springs. Monroe Gas Magnum TDT rear shocks. 3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors and rear cargo area. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear (2nd row) USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with LED light bar. Provent catch can. LED interior lights. Rear cargo area twin Andersons and Merit socket. Anderson plug in rear bumper. 6 channel TPMS.

      Comment

      • old Jack
        Regular
        • Jun 2011
        • 11499
        • Adelaide, South Australia.

        Originally posted by Keithyv View Post
        Nope I mean lockup mate.
        Driving in D
        Slight sweeping up-hill in a 80 km/h zone just after I leave home.

        Lockup mate locked the TC while doing 80 or so while car is in 5th.
        Stock no way the TC would lock in those circumstances.
        Just caused a bit of a 'lug' or harshness..
        Hi Keith,

        I just check the MM4x4 website and Lockup Mate only works when you are in Sport mode and not in Drive?

        OJ.
        2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
        MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

        Comment

        • Keithyv
          Valued Member
          • May 2018
          • 1347
          • Perth

          Originally posted by old Jack View Post
          Hi Keith,

          I just check the MM4x4 website and Lockup Mate only works when you are in Sport mode and not in Drive?

          OJ.
          No this is not correct, I can't see anywhere where it says that.

          It works in D 100%

          Last edited by Keithyv; 08-04-20, 09:52 PM.
          2014 NW MY14 3.2 DID GLX-R Auto. Champagne in colour!
          MM Lockup mate. King KCRS-35 rear springs. Monroe Gas Magnum TDT rear shocks. 3M color stable tint all round. Spare wheel lift kit. 'Dynamat' in all doors and rear cargo area. Pioneer AVH-Z5150BT Head Unit. Upgraded Speakers. Rear (2nd row) USB outlet. Factory nudge bar with LED light bar. Provent catch can. LED interior lights. Rear cargo area twin Andersons and Merit socket. Anderson plug in rear bumper. 6 channel TPMS.

          Comment

          • m_and_m
            Valued Member
            • Mar 2010
            • 1808
            • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

            Originally posted by Dicko1 View Post
            I dont turn mine on until the engine temp hits 87.....and leave it off in the 60kph zones..
            Dicko, the initial version of the software in your unit activates auto-mate when the transmission oil is at 30 degrees. We've since increase the default to 40 (because during the cold of winter I found the trans was not warming up quickly enough), and in the latest version you can choose the warmup temp, anything between 20-100 degrees.

            The Challenger is fixed at 40 degC.
            2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
            2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
            Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

            Comment

            • m_and_m
              Valued Member
              • Mar 2010
              • 1808
              • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

              Originally posted by Keithyv View Post
              After 3 months or so of running my lockup mate with default settings I bumped up (down?) the threshold so it locks up later. All round improvement I think. Before it would lockup at 70 or 80 km/h when the engine had not yet warmed up and lugged a bit.
              Yes, lockup-mate doesn't monitor the transmission temperature before activating like auto-mate does.
              2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
              2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
              Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

              Comment

              • m_and_m
                Valued Member
                • Mar 2010
                • 1808
                • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                Originally posted by Keithyv View Post
                No this is not correct, I can't see anywhere where it says that.

                It works in D 100%

                https://88c80261-c82e-4595-8b4b-f808...78ecdecacc.pdf
                Correct. lockup-mate works in D, but only when you're at the speed that allows lockup in 5th (around 75kph). In SPORT it work in all gears.
                auto-mate works in all gears - both DRIVE and SPORT modes.

                Both only work in 1st if you've had the valve body modified.
                2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                Comment

                • m_and_m
                  Valued Member
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 1808
                  • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                  Fuel savings around town
                  The performance of the ASIN and JATCO transmissions in the Gen4 Pajero (NT+) and Challenger respectively are quite different. You get good fuel savings around town with the Challenger, less so with the Pajero. Definitely fuel savings on the open road touring with a load or larger tyres with both.

                  Smoothness
                  The Challenger gear changes aren't as smooth initially and it takes time for the TCU's adaptive learning to make it better. This isn't the case with the Pajero as the adaptive learning plays less of a role. In both you will 'notice' the gear changes which is normal, and in the Challenger they're more noticeable when changing under light throttle.
                  2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                  2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                  Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                  Comment

                  • m_and_m
                    Valued Member
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 1808
                    • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                    Originally posted by Mundy55 View Post
                    Lest these comments be misconstrued, let me start out by saying I am, overall very happy with the Automate lockup kit. However, contrary to Denmonkey, I haven't found the gear changes smoother when the TCC is locked and there's a definite tug when you back off the accelerator (like in a manual).
                    Agree. The changes are more usually more noticeable. denmokney just happened to have a perfect change at that time
                    When decelerating it remains locked (in the Pajero version) so you get better engine braking. The factory program unlocks it the moment you lift the accelerator pedal and coast.
                    In the Challenger version it's different. When coasting it unlocks it, and only locks during coasting when in SPORT mode for better engine braking.

                    I also found that the rpm at which gear changes occurred have changed from 40kph for 4th and 60kph for 5th, to 60kph and 80kph respectively. This surprised me, initially, until I realised that because the TCC can't slip, the revs need to be higher to stop lugging at too low rpm.
                    Correct. The Pajero driveline is also very sensitive to shudder, and this can vary between vehicles. This is one reason why auto-mate is adjustable. You can adjust the shift pattern up a little if it feels like it's lugging in your particular vehicle.
                    What this means to me is that around town, I don't expect to get any significant fuel improvement as I now spend a lot more time in 3rd and 4th and don't get into 5th often, notwithstanding the slippage that occurs without the TCC locked. I expect the big improvement to be on the open road and when towing (something to look forward to, post Covid19).
                    yes, agree for the Pajero, but in the Challenger/Triton, due to the high slip torque converter, you can get very good fuel savings around town.

                    I haven't reconfigured my Torque pro properly yet to check on transmission temp differences but this is the main benefit to me of the kit - to protect the TCC from overheating.
                    Trans temps will be substantially lower. Many forget this is the primary purpose of the lockup-kits, and fuel savings is a very nice side benefit
                    2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                    2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                    Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                    Comment

                    • carnut1100
                      Junior Member
                      • Jun 2019
                      • 35
                      • brisbane

                      Originally posted by m_and_m View Post
                      Correct. lockup-mate works in D, but only when you're at the speed that allows lockup in 5th (around 75kph). In SPORT it work in all gears.
                      auto-mate works in all gears - both DRIVE and SPORT modes.

                      Both only work in 1st if you've had the valve body modified.
                      What needs to be done to the valve body?
                      I think 1st low with lockup would be awesome on technical descents...

                      I wish automate and paddlemate worked together...

                      Comment

                      • twisted32
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 303
                        • Adelaide

                        Originally posted by carnut1100 View Post
                        What needs to be done to the valve body?
                        I think 1st low with lockup would be awesome on technical descents...

                        I wish automate and paddlemate worked together...
                        Wholesale Automatics offer a modified option when you get a Nomad valve body. I believe it entails opening up a hydraulic passage that is blocked from factory.
                        I have had it in my NW, the additional engine braking in low range was negligible. Mark's 3.15 reduction gears are a much better option for this purpose.
                        MY14 GLX Pajero DID auto with Lift, 265/70 R17 Yoki X-AT's, Full Bushskinz plates , Scotts Rods 3" TBE, Johnny Tig FMIC, TME ECU remap, Provent, OL Bullbar, Ironman 9500lbs winch, dual batteries, Lockup mate lite, nomad valve body, aeroflow AF72-6000 transmission cooler with 9" fan and radiator cooler bypass, 3.15 reduction gears, traction contol mod (on/off), Uniden 8080S, flappy paddles, Rhino flat rack mounted on ARB rails, 42" Stedi ST3K light bar and custom drawers

                        Comment

                        • Ian H
                          Valued Member
                          • May 2015
                          • 2491
                          • Melbourne

                          I didn't think locking the TC would be of any benefit downhill. Happy to be corrected though.
                          Last edited by Ian H; 12-04-20, 09:00 AM.
                          2015 NX GLS, Factory alloy bar, Kings HD Springs & Koni Shocks with 50mm lift, MM Auto Mate, Paddle shift kit, dual batteries with Redarc DC/DC, LRA 58L tank, Safari snorkel, Boo's bash plates (full set), 17" steels with BFG KO2's, Drifta drawers with slide, TPMS, Uniden UH8080S, Alpine iLX-702D head unit.

                          Comment

                          • 4ePikanini
                            Valued Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 831
                            • South Africa, East London

                            Originally posted by Ian H View Post
                            I didn't think locking the TC would be of any benefit downhill. Happy to be corrected though.
                            Locking the TC when going downhill does provide engine braking but it is limited by the gear ratios, also if allows the ATF to be circulated through the ATF coolers, this is important if you have just done a long climb and the ATF temperatures have increased.

                            OJ.
                            If the engine turns, the atf pump pumps.

                            Locking the torque converter when coasting adds engine braking and cools the atf.

                            If it isn't locked it's slipping and will add heat to the atf even when coasting downhill. Yes, you read that correctly.



                            Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk
                            1993 3.0 V6 Pajero - SOLD
                            2001 3.2 Di-D Pajero - SOLD
                            2005 Touareg R5 2.5 TDi - SOLD
                            2007 Pajero LWB 3.2 Di-D

                            Comment

                            • old Jack
                              Regular
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 11499
                              • Adelaide, South Australia.

                              When we were testing and tuning both Lockup Mate and Auto Mate on the Challenger, we used the SE freeway climb to Crafers from the Tollgate as our test climb. This is about 7km of constant steep uphill that stresses engines and auto transmissions especially when towing. The Challenger would go into limp mode if you used Drive, had your foot flat to the floor and was towing 2000kg.

                              Without the TC locked we had ATF temps of over 110C at the top of the climb and these would stay above 95C even after the return trip of 7kms back down the hill. When we descended the hill with the TC locked we where able to get the ATF down to less than 70C.

                              With the TC locked on the climb we had max ATF temps of 85C and with the TC locked on the descent below 70C. With the locked TC in 3rd almost no braking was required, compared the unlocked TC. Descend the hill in Drive and a lot of brake use was required.

                              OJ.
                              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                              Comment

                              • m_and_m
                                Valued Member
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 1808
                                • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                                Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                                When we were testing and tuning both Lockup Mate and Auto Mate on the Challenger, we used the SE freeway climb to Crafers from the Tollgate as our test climb. This is about 7km of constant steep uphill that stresses engines and auto transmissions especially when towing. The Challenger would go into limp mode if you used Drive, had your foot flat to the floor and was towing 2000kg.

                                Without the TC locked we had ATF temps of over 110C at the top of the climb and these would stay above 95C even after the return trip of 7kms back down the hill. When we descended the hill with the TC locked we where able to get the ATF down to less than 70C.

                                With the TC locked on the climb we had max ATF temps of 85C and with the TC locked on the descent below 70C. With the locked TC in 3rd almost no braking was required, compared the unlocked TC. Descend the hill in Drive and a lot of brake use was required.

                                OJ.
                                For anyone new to this thread, the results from the freeway climb mentioned by OJ are located in post #85 of this thread - the pdf attachment.
                                Last edited by m_and_m; 12-04-20, 06:30 PM.
                                2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                                2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                                Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                                Comment

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