Towing and ball weight

[Ian H]

I know that the Paj has this problematic issue with ball weight, namely that if the van exceeds 2500kg, the allowable ball weight is reduced from 250kg to 180kg.

The question is, if I'm looking at a van with an ATM of 2550, and I don't load it fully and make sure up it's weight is under the maximum, say at 2400kg. Does that mean I can have a ball weight of 250kg ?

Or is the allowable ball weight determined by the ATM and that's it.

[gazza11]

Check with the appropriate authority, that way you will get the correct answer.
Cheers.

[Dicko1]

ATM is the maximum weight. If your van weighs in at 2450 you are good to go with 250kg ball weight. A smart man would have the van weighed on a set of certified weighbridge scales. Too many vans are hundreds of kilos over their stated weight. Dont be caught out. Why it isnt law for every van to have a weighbridge certificate used as part of the sales is beyond me. This weighbridge printout would also be handy if stopped by police doing random weight checks.

[Ian H]

Thanks Dicko and it look like you are right. Speaking with the caravan people this afternoon, they also said it's the actual weight, not the ATM, which makes sense.

[Pixie_au]

I have a follow up question for the forum (seeing as original question answered).

Is the drop from 250kg to 180kg lineal (proportionaly between 3000kg and 2500kg) or simply step down once over 2500kg?

[old Jack]

Hi Ian,


For less than $100 you can buy a HR towball download scale, I would be buying one or borrowing one and checking what the showroom towball weight is when the drawbar is level. Record both weight and the drawbar height. Once you have these numbers post them or PM me. We can calculate a rough guesstimate of what the towball load is likely to be once you are loaded.

You may be surprised at the towball weight it could already exceed 180kgs if the Tare Weight of the caravan is high or there is a design imbalance. Knowing what the van model and fitted options will also be useful information.

Do you want to buy a caravan only to find out you cannot legally tow it?

Some more info on the implications of towing heavy.

https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/towing-trailer-australia

https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/how-to-choose-the-best-new-vehicle-for-towing-anything

OJ.

[Ian H]

I have a follow up question for the forum (seeing as original question answered).

Is the drop from 250kg to 180kg lineal (proportionaly between 3000kg and 2500kg) or simply step down once over 2500kg?

It's just one step. Once you are over 2500kg, it's 180kg ball, even if it's 2501.

[craka]

Are you guys sure about that? I was under the impression if the trailer rating exceeds 2.5T whether it loaded to that capacity or not, than legally the ball weight needs to be a maximum of 180kg.

I don't have this problem as mine is a NS and thus I'm only allowed to tow a maximum of 2.5T anyway.

But legally I cannot tow a trailer that is rated for more than 2.5Tonne even if it is loaded to below 2.5Tonne aggregate. ie I cannot tow a trailer that is rated for a aggregate of 3Tonne, even though it may only weigh 2.4Tonne when I want to tow it.

[Ian H]

Thanks OJ, I will be checking the weights but I'm also very sus on the accuracy of those ball weight scales. Mine measure a lot less than what I get on the weighbridge but I'm also sceptical of their accuracy too because I've been there two days running and filled up with 80L of fuel on the second day....and got a reading of less weight than when I hadn't filled up ! How accurate a weight bridge designed to measure a truck is going to be when it gets down to ball weights of 150-300kg is what I'm not sure about.

I appreciate the offer of calculating the extra load on the ball too. I'll see what happens further as I'm still a bit in between as to whether I'll buy one or not. We have a van which is only 4 years old but only 16' with a combo shower/toilet and the other half would like a little more room and full ensuite so I'm looking at around 17-18ft.

Here's an example which looks like good value

https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/items/details/2019-kokoda-digger-x-trail/OAG-AD-17264605/?Cr=20

ATM is 2700, tare 2160, ball 140kg.

Add full water tanks (190L) and there's still a fair way to go before I'd hit 2500.

[Dicko1]

Are you guys sure about that? I was under the impression if the trailer rating exceeds 2.5T whether it loaded to that capacity or not, than legally the ball weight needs to be a maximum of 180kg.

I don't have this problem as mine is a NS and thus I'm only allowed to tow a maximum of 2.5T anyway.

But legally I cannot tow a trailer that is rated for more than 2.5Tonne even if it is loaded to below 2.5Tonne aggregate. ie I cannot tow a trailer that is rated for a aggregate of 3Tonne, even though it may only weigh 2.4Tonne when I want to tow it.

Can you show that bit of illegality. Towing a trailer that could have an ATM of say 2800kg , yet has a gross vehicle weight of 2300kg. 500kg under ATM and 200kg under the vehicles tow weight limit. Where is the problem?

[Dicko1]

Thanks OJ, I will be checking the weights but I'm also very sus on the accuracy of those ball weight scales. Mine measure a lot less than what I get on the weighbridge but I'm also sceptical of their accuracy too because I've been there two days running and filled up with 80L of fuel on the second day....and got a reading of less weight than when I hadn't filled up ! How accurate a weight bridge designed to measure a truck is going to be when it gets down to ball weights of 150-300kg is what I'm not sure about.

I appreciate the offer of calculating the extra load on the ball too. I'll see what happens further as I'm still a bit in between as to whether I'll buy one or not. We have a van which is only 4 years old but only 16' with a combo shower/toilet and the other half would like a little more room and full ensuite so I'm looking at around 17-18ft.

Here's an example which looks like good value

https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/items/details/2019-kokoda-digger-x-trail/OAG-AD-17264605/?Cr=20

ATM is 2700, tare 2160, ball 140kg.

Add full water tanks (190L) and there's still a fair way to go before I'd hit 2500.

Buy a set of these scales.

https://www.medshop.com.au/products/myweigh-250kg-heavy-duty-talking-scale

Good thing about these is you can take them with you when you go to check out a van. Dont take the sellers word for it as most have no real idea. The van your looking at looks sweet...however I,d still want a weighbridge docket before spending my dollars.



Cheap enough and will be a lot more accurate than some of dubious ball weighing scales I,ve seen advertised. I use a set of 300kg digital, once certified, fishing club scales. Very accurate but at $800 a bit expensive for your average camper. I got these when fishing club ceased to exist. My camper weighs around the 1750kg mark with a ball weight of around $150kg.

[Ian H]

Good idea, thanks.

I was very tempted to get the Reich scales. Not cheap I know buy better than a fine and being put off the road.

[old Jack]

Thanks OJ, I will be checking the weights but I'm also very sus on the accuracy of those ball weight scales. Mine measure a lot less than what I get on the weighbridge but I'm also sceptical of their accuracy too because I've been there two days running and filled up with 80L of fuel on the second day....and got a reading of less weight than when I hadn't filled up ! How accurate a weight bridge designed to measure a truck is going to be when it gets down to ball weights of 150-300kg is what I'm not sure about.

I appreciate the offer of calculating the extra load on the ball too. I'll see what happens further as I'm still a bit in between as to whether I'll buy one or not. We have a van which is only 4 years old but only 16' with a combo shower/toilet and the other half would like a little more room and full ensuite so I'm looking at around 17-18ft.

Here's an example which looks like good value

https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/items/details/2019-kokoda-digger-x-trail/OAG-AD-17264605/?Cr=20

ATM is 2700, tare 2160, ball 140kg.

Add full water tanks (190L) and there's still a fair way to go before I'd hit 2500.

Hi Ian,

I just looked at the manufacturers website.


My comments are based on a quick assessment from what I could see.
It is a single axle "off-road" 18ft caravan with 6.5% ball weight of 140kg at Tare of 2160kg, ATM of 2700 so that is a 540kg payload. The ball load is quite light and I suspect the manufacturer achieves this lower ball load by the fact that there are 2 spare wheels mounted on a rear bumper that sits 300mm off the rear face of the caravan. There are also 2x 20 litre jerry can holders mounted on the rear bar so that is an extra 40kg. I cannot see where the location of the 2x 95kg water tanks are to see what influence this 190kg would have on the weight distribution. This could be one of those vans that is really twitchy and when loaded becomes "a tail wagging the dog" I cannot say from the information available.

Do you really need an "off road" spec caravan or would a semi off road do, this would save you weight. This caravan is still only conventional timber construction with aluminum cladding that is sitting on top of a heavier chassis so it is unlikely to be strong enough for extended off bitumen travel if this is your plan.

Have you looked at/considered the slightly smaller/ lighter model Major X-Treme, 17'ft 6 inch, Tare 1956kg, Ball 129kg (6.6% of Tare), ATM 2500kg, 544kg payload?
From what I can see it looks like it could be more stable but once again without knowing where the water tanks are located it is difficult to say.

Do you use or intend to use a WDH, if so what type?

If you sit on the drawbar scales how accurate is the reading?

Licensed weighbridges must be calibrated and certified ever 12 months but depending on the age and design of the weigh bridge it may only weigh in 1, 5, 10, 20 or 50kg increments so it is worth checking what the weighbridge is that you are using.


OJ.

[pharb]

Are you guys sure about that? I was under the impression if the trailer rating exceeds 2.5T whether it loaded to that capacity or not, than legally the ball weight needs to be a maximum of 180kg.

I don't have this problem as mine is a NS and thus I'm only allowed to tow a maximum of 2.5T anyway.

But legally I cannot tow a trailer that is rated for more than 2.5Tonne even if it is loaded to below 2.5Tonne aggregate. ie I cannot tow a trailer that is rated for a aggregate of 3Tonne, even though it may only weigh 2.4Tonne when I want to tow it.

Towing limits of tow vehicles are based on actual weight of trailer, not the rated capacity

For example from the Victorian Road Safety (Vehicle) Regs -

163 Mass limit for trailers being towed by light motor vehicles
(1) The total mass limit for a trailer, including any load, being towed by a light motor vehicle is the
lowest of the following—
(a) the capacity of the towing apparatus fitted to the motor vehicle;
(b) the maximum trailer mass specified by the light motor vehicle's manufacturer for trailers that may be towed by the light motor vehicle;
(c) the GVM of the trailer.



So the trailer can weigh up to the tow vehicle's towing limit, or the GVM of the trailer, whichever is lessor.

I think a lot of confusion in the caravan sector stems from the fact that a caravans ATM is not much more than the tare weight, so if your caravan has an ATM of 2.7t you will struggle to keep its actual weight under 2.5t, hence the common belief you can't tow a 2.7t ATM van.

However a trailer like a car trailer with a 3t ATM might tare at 0.5t, so you can still put a 2t car on the trailer and be legal at 25t gross trailer weight.

[craka]

Can you show that bit of illegality. Towing a trailer that could have an ATM of say 2800kg , yet has a gross vehicle weight of 2300kg. 500kg under ATM and 200kg under the vehicles tow weight limit. Where is the problem?

I wasn't talking 200kg under the vehicles limit. I was relating to a NS with a 2.5Tonne legal tow capacity.

But for instance if you have a vehicle that is capable of towing 3Tonne maximum, you are not legally allowed to tow a trailer that is rated at above that ie ATM of 3.5T even when it is unloaded and is weight is only say 2Tonne.


I was under the impression that is similar of how they would assess the legality of tow ball wieight, ie if you towing a trailer rated for 3T but only weighing 2T, then the legal limit would still be 180Kg tow ball weight.