RIP Holden

[nj swb]

You want to look at some of the pay rates for different occupations in the mining industry NJ SWB....ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

Yep. Back in 2012 I was managing a project outside Port Hedland, where we were all FIFO from Adelaide. Because FMG were the ultimate end client, and we were working on FMG land, we were put up in FMG camps - so our tradies got to talk to some of the other FIFO workers.

Our tradies were on all sorts of allowances as per their EBA, and working damned hard - 12 hour days to deliver a tight schedule on a project that was rushed from conception to delivery. So some of our senior guys were grossing $4.8k per week, then complaining to me that they weren't being paid enough - compared with some of the other workers in camp.

They were earning a lot more than I was, and I was working longer hours, so my typical response was to offer to send them home. Nobody accepted that offer.

[Jasonmc73]

[QUOTE=sharkcaver;626591]A
Here is a link to it:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae411040.pdf

Old Jack is eluding to $75K per annum for a forkie.

A mecahnic in QLD, diesel fitter, trades person struggle to get that in QLD where i'm from thats a huge wage for a forkie.
A car mechanic the foreman yeah possibly

In the EBA attached I see 3% per annum wage increase year on year on year & I believe these type of increases been going on for years if not decades, its not the mines i'm afraid

I once worked in the mines, heap of loot to burn in the mines.

If all the extra loot was "overtime" they would have run split shifts i'm sure as the freight industry does.

Forklift operator is worth permanent job $25 an hour & thats being generous, totally unskilled labour, glorified store person & award is probably more like $20 per hour, thats what they are worth.

Same goes for many jobs, fitting windows is hardly skilled labour, glorified labour at best.

Manufacturing costs went up & up & up & up far beyond profitability quite obviously as the wages that were being paid us tax payers sponsored for hundreds of millions!

All car manufacturers same problem in Australia, cheaper to pay freight & build elsewhere for more than just wages & union issues i do realise that.

BUT I would love to know what the balance of government income was sponsoring the jobs & spin off jobs?
I suggest we came out cash positive from the dollars recieved in tax receipts etc from the industry & payrolls of all involved?

I personally think that all higher & higher & higher wages achieve is higher cost of living & you are no better off anyhow.
Thank god Unions are nowhere near my line of work, parasites that are exceptional at making arrangements once the business finally caves in & leaves.

Never been in a Union, never been exploited, be buggered if i'm paying there junket wages.
I have jobs where I don't like pay & conditions, so you know what, i found another one.
We have quite good laws for workers in Australia as far as I have ever seen.

How to F#$@ a country Unions

Note: Personal opinion of course! We have less Union garbage in QLD but still too much.........................

[sharkcaver]

How was Australian car manufacturing supposed to compete with Asia's power-house manufacturing nations when they're being hobbled to that extent?

I hear what you are saying and I agree with the above.

But its hardly the unions screwing the company to the wall as you called it. A non tradie with 2.5 years experience in 2014 (level N23) was on $55K PA - $29 per hour. Average mechanical trades person outside the auto industry would have been on +$30 odd per hour. Its an above average pay yes, but not what I would call excessive, nor screwing the company to the wall. And the way they earned their 75K....They had to work shift and overtime. As I said, they didn't get it for free.

As to cost savings, I reckon the fat cats were milking GMH to a greater extent - anecdotal evidence on my part. If the auto workers had to tighten the belt, so too should have all the rest.

[Dicko1]

[QUOTE=Jasonmc73;626646][QUOTE=sharkcaver;626591]A
Here is a link to it:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae411040.pdf

Old Jack is eluding to $75K per annum for a forkie.

A mecahnic in QLD, diesel fitter, trades person struggle to get that in QLD where i'm from thats a huge wage for a forkie.
A car mechanic the foreman yeah possibly

In the EBA attached I see 3% per annum wage increase year on year on year & I believe these type of increases been going on for years if not decades, its not the mines i'm afraid

I once worked in the mines, heap of loot to burn in the mines.

If all the extra loot was "overtime" they would have run split shifts i'm sure as the freight industry does.

Forklift operator is worth permanent job $25 an hour & thats being generous, totally unskilled labour, glorified store person & award is probably more like $20 per hour, thats what they are worth.

Same goes for many jobs, fitting windows is hardly skilled labour, glorified labour at best.

Manufacturing costs went up & up & up & up far beyond profitability quite obviously as the wages that were being paid us tax payers sponsored for hundreds of millions!

All car manufacturers same problem in Australia, cheaper to pay freight & build elsewhere for more than just wages & union issues i do realise that.

BUT I would love to know what the balance of government income was sponsoring the jobs & spin off jobs?
I suggest we came out cash positive from the dollars recieved in tax receipts etc from the industry & payrolls of all involved?

I personally think that all higher & higher & higher wages achieve is higher cost of living & you are no better off anyhow.
Thank god Unions are nowhere near my line of work, parasites that are exceptional at making arrangements once the business finally caves in & leaves.

Never been in a Union, never been exploited, be buggered if i'm paying there junket wages.
I have jobs where I don't like pay & conditions, so you know what, i found another one.
We have quite good laws for workers in Australia as far as I have ever seen.

How to F#$@ a country Unions

Note: Personal opinion of course! We have less Union garbage in QLD but still too much.........................[/QUOTE]




Thats because we have so much council/state govt garbage...no room for much more garbage in Qld. You have never been exploited...good. That means you have always worked for yourself and never a wage. Unions are no different to coppers...a necessary evil!!

[nj swb]

Unions are no different to coppers...a necessary evil!!

For the record, I agree. I think unions are an indispensable part of industrial relations, until some over-step the mark. Some people start working for a union, gain a little power, then get carried away with wielding that power - it becomes more about winning battles than looking after member's interests.

Employers & employees need each other to survive. Some employers screw their workers, some unions screw the employers. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Having Fun]

In Australia, the debate is very much focused on Holden (as you might expect), but GM is a US company. They sell a masses more cars in the US, than they could ever dream of selling here. Trump has made it very clear to US car makers that if they manufacture them overseas, they will be hit with very heavy punitive tariffs, even on cars manufactured domestically. No wonder they're shutting down/selling all of their offshore manufacturing plants.

The policy is actually a very good one if you're a US citizen. Not so great for the rest of us though.

Something else that Trump is doing that will actually assist US car manufacturers is to attempt to wind back the very strong Californian emissions laws, so that car makers don't have to keep basing their entire manufacturing US wide on Californian laws.

There are arguments for & against that policy though!

[Dicko1]

In Australia, the debate is very much focused on Holden (as you might expect), but GM is a US company. They sell a masses more cars in the US, than they could ever dream of selling here. Trump has made it very clear to US car makers that if they manufacture them overseas, they will be hit with very heavy punitive tariffs, even on cars manufactured domestically. No wonder they're shutting down/selling all of their offshore manufacturing plants.

The policy is actually a very good one if you're a US citizen. Not so great for the rest of us though.

Something else that Trump is doing that will actually assist US car manufacturers is to attempt to wind back the very strong Californian emissions laws, so that car makers don't have to keep basing their entire manufacturing US wide on Californian laws.

There are arguments for & against that policy though!

Trump has only one motive behind every decision he makes ....money. He,s not interested in environment, workers, honesty, morals or the law. I,m very disappointed he hasnt had a sniper take him out....its leaders like this that is taking mankind to a bleak future unless your filthy rich or happy to kiss his arse. The billions our politicians have wasted on themselves and bullshit projects could have seen us start up new technologies and industries that would benefit all Australians...but no...self interest wins the day.

[pajflareo]

In Australia, the debate is very much focused on Holden (as you might expect), but GM is a US company. They sell a masses more cars in the US, than they could ever dream of selling here. Trump has made it very clear to US car makers that if they manufacture them overseas, they will be hit with very heavy punitive tariffs, even on cars manufactured domestically. No wonder they're shutting down/selling all of their offshore manufacturing plants.

The policy is actually a very good one if you're a US citizen. Not so great for the rest of us though.

Something else that Trump is doing that will actually assist US car manufacturers is to attempt to wind back the very strong Californian emissions laws, so that car makers don't have to keep basing their entire manufacturing US wide on Californian laws.

There are arguments for & against that policy though!

It becomes not so great for US citizens when other jurisdictions enact retaliatory tariffs. Eventually the cost of all cars goes up.

But GM isnt even moving production back to the states since 2017 they have closed more production then they have opened in the US.

GM recently decided to start making the Chevrolet Blazer SUV in Mexico, rather than the plant in Lordstown, Ohio that it is winding down.

[BruceandBobbi]

Trump has only one motive behind every decision he makes ....money. He,s not interested in environment, workers, honesty, morals or the law. I,m very disappointed he hasnt had a sniper take him out....its leaders like this that is taking mankind to a bleak future unless your filthy rich or happy to kiss his arse. The billions our politicians have wasted on themselves and bullshit projects could have seen us start up new technologies and industries that would benefit all Australians...but no...self interest wins the day.

Dicko you can vent politics all you like.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl

[Dicko1]

Dicko you can vent politics all you like.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl

Thanks for the link mate..but venting politics is akin to counting number of flakes in a corn flake box. I,m just ashamed that Australia has denigrated into a country that is at less than 10% of its potential..

[Having Fun]

It becomes not so great for US citizens when other jurisdictions enact retaliatory tariffs. Eventually the cost of all cars goes up.

But GM isnt even moving production back to the states since 2017 they have closed more production then they have opened in the US.

GM recently decided to start making the Chevrolet Blazer SUV in Mexico, rather than the plant in Lordstown, Ohio that it is winding down.

The policy aims at producing cars for the US market, made by manufacturers in the US = jobs in the USA. I reckon that there's a fair bit of to & fro ATM. GM would be saying that they've cut RHD loose & shut down us, Thailand etc. But building US cars in Mexico is what Trump wants shut down. He'll get it eventually.


I don't think they give a fat rats about retaliation TBH. They are the big game in car sales. Retaliation is a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Jasonmc73]

Quote:
Thats because we have so much council/state govt garbage...no room for much more garbage in Qld. You have never been exploited...good. That means you have always worked for yourself and never a wage. Unions are no different to coppers...a necessary evil!![/QUOTE]

I agree with the council & State government jab

This is not true though, I have worked for salary in small business for 15 years.
If I haven't like the job in the past I find another one. No one has ever said to me I have to work somewhere?
We have quite strong laws surrounding employment & as an employee I have a fair idea what they are as do most employers, there is no need for unions in the modern workplace, any that I have been in anyhow.
What for
Parasites & expensive mobs to run.

25 years ago I worked on tunnel projects i see people discuss here along wih hard rock mines, same companies generally do both similar works in a sense, as contractors, again no unions & very well paid, big hours & renumerated for the trouble.
OH&S is another beast that is crippling the modern workforce, it is a whole new industry, productivity zero, common sense is no longer allowed to be applied this is a fact.
The sad part is youth moving through its totally normal for them not to look at how to get a job done, but look to see why they can't do the job.
The madness with OH&S is on another level, insidious creep more about ass covering than safety as lawyers are having a field day. Its all about blame shiftng & not being liable pure & simple. Productivity zero

How times change I suppose, why would you manufacture in Aussie

[Having Fun]

Quote:
Thats because we have so much council/state govt garbage...no room for much more garbage in Qld. You have never been exploited...good. That means you have always worked for yourself and never a wage. Unions are no different to coppers...a necessary evil!![/QUOTE]

I agree with the council & State government jab

This is not true though, I have worked for salary in small business for 15 years.
If I haven't like the job in the past I find another one. No one has ever said to me I have to work somewhere?
We have quite strong laws surrounding employment & as an employee I have a fair idea what they are as do most employers, there is no need for unions in the modern workplace, any that I have been in anyhow.
What for
Parasites & expensive mobs to run.

25 years ago I worked on tunnel projects i see people discuss here along wih hard rock mines, same companies generally do both similar works in a sense, as contractors, again no unions & very well paid, big hours & renumerated for the trouble.
OH&S is another beast that is crippling the modern workforce, it is a whole new industry, productivity zero, common sense is no longer allowed to be applied this is a fact.
The sad part is youth moving through its totally normal for them not to look at how to get a job done, but look to see why they can't do the job.
The madness with OH&S is on another level, insidious creep more about ass covering than safety as lawyers are having a field day. Its all about blame shiftng & not being liable pure & simple. Productivity zero

How times change I suppose, why would you manufacture in Aussie

I like the way you think! Sadly, we're in the minority.