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Techniques Winching - Recoveries - Chainsaw Safety - Proper aproach to 4wding etc

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  #1  
Old 02-06-20
Andythiing Andythiing is offline
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Default Off road in a SWB vs a LWB

Apologies if this is covered in a different forum already - Iíve had my NT SWB for a year now and love it - but Iíve had to adjust having moved from a 100 series (lx470) down to the SWB size - havenít done a lot of serious off-roading in it yet but during a recent trip to eagle view/Saunders gorge in SA did test it a bit in some of the tougher sections.

Was surprised how different the SWB felt in some sections - quite sketchy feeling and didnít feel as stable - particularly coming down hill in some of the steeper sections.

Would love some views and guidance on learning to safely find the extremes of the vehicle - ie not right on the edge but understand whatís a safe margin of error - I realise itís a bit like how long is a piece of string but am I just having to get used to the ďfeelĒ of the SWB or are their significant different limits I need to be aware of?
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Old 02-06-20
Seigried Seigried is offline
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I used to do some pretty extreme wheeling in a swb suzuki Sierra. (Not that the lwb sierra is long). Getting back into wheeling with a full ifs lwb paj has been a learning curve. No doubt one of the scariest feelings is the seesawing which on a swb paj would be amplified. So my advice is take it slow and build up your nerves! Your not going to feel the suspension "walk" as you might with live axles.


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Last edited by Seigried; 02-06-20 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 02-06-20
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geopaj geopaj is online now
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Calling NJ_SWB... where are you?
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Old 02-06-20
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Originally Posted by geopaj View Post
Calling NJ_SWB... where are you?
Hello.

Hi Andy,

Comparing LWB vs SWB is hard enough, without comparing a LandCruiser to a Pajero. There's at least two major differences to consider.

First, let's start with LWB vs SWB. While a SWB has lots of benefits in terms of weight, turning circle and approach, departure and ramp-over angles, the shorter wheel-base can definitely work against you in cross-axle situations. In a crossed-up scenario, the SWB rear wheel hits the peak sooner and wants to begin "tipping" where the LWB is still approaching the tipping point. So you feel that "tipping" transition more often than in a LWB, and it happens in places where a LWB may not. Of course, you don't notice all the places that you don't scrape your belly or bum, where a LWB would.

Second, you also have made the transition from a vehicle with awesome wheel travel to one without. While Mitsubishi did a great job designing their front & rear geometry to allow lots of travel when everything is ideal, the reality for many is that the Gen 4 has the articulation of a skateboard.

My Shorty evolved significantly over time, and one of the biggest improvements in driver confidence came when I removed the rear sway bar. With the heavy duty springs I had installed I didn't notice a difference in on-road ride & handling (and Shorty subsequently passed an engineering swerve test without the sway bar), but off road the additional articulation made a huge difference to Shorty's ability to keep wheels on the ground. Living in Brisbane at the time, we had a few local playgrounds with which I was quite familiar, and the improvement in stability was unmistakable.

I suspect that limited wheel travel in your Shorty is the biggest contributor to the difference you've noticed - unfortunately, your Shorty will never have the wheel travel of a well set up LX470. However, not all Pajero suspension setups are the same.

When I bought my NT it came with aftermarket suspension fitted by the previous owner. Not long after purchasing it, I fitted OME suspension, with which I was moderately happy - until we found the travel ramp at Loveday. I was driving a skateboard - I think every other Pajero present out-flexed mine.

Some time later, for different reasons, I ended up with different springs & shocks in the rear. On another trip we found an eroded creek crossing that offered an excellent opportunity to test droop travel - this time, my rear suspension had the best travel of the Pajeros. With the rear sway bar still in place.

So, long story short, have a good look at your suspension setup, and look at how you might be able to improve your wheel travel.

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Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

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Old 02-06-20
BruceandBobbi BruceandBobbi is offline
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Originally Posted by nj swb View Post

So, long story short, have a good look at your suspension setup, and look at how you might be able to improve your wheel travel.
And your new suspension is......?
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Old 02-06-20
Andythiing Andythiing is offline
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Thanks for the feedback guys - learning lots and Iíll definitely have a look at suspension options as well
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Old 02-06-20
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Originally Posted by BruceandBobbi View Post
And your new suspension is......?
A love-hate relationship. Read the last couple of pages of my build thread (in my sig).

Kings EHD springs with Dobinson monotubes. I have the MRRs, which have given me some grief. I believe the standard monotubes have all the travel benefits without the remote reservoir disbenefits. A shorty would have less weight to control, so probably wouldn't need extra cooling as much as a LWB.
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Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

Scorpro Explorer Box
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Old 04-06-20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andythiing View Post
Apologies if this is covered in a different forum already - I’ve had my NT SWB for a year now and love it - but I’ve had to adjust having moved from a 100 series (lx470) down to the SWB size - haven’t done a lot of serious off-roading in it yet but during a recent trip to eagle view/Saunders gorge in SA did test it a bit in some of the tougher sections.

Was surprised how different the SWB felt in some sections - quite sketchy feeling and didn’t feel as stable - particularly coming down hill in some of the steeper sections.

Would love some views and guidance on learning to safely find the extremes of the vehicle - ie not right on the edge but understand what’s a safe margin of error - I realise it’s a bit like how long is a piece of string but am I just having to get used to the “feel” of the SWB or are their significant different limits I need to be aware of?
I have had my NS shorty for 12ish years, and yes I think the shorty feels like it exaggerates the feeling of wheel lift and drop compared to a longer vehicle when travelling downhill, but saying that I feel it is more nimble in terms of piloting and picking the better line. The auto box in the shorty (all pajeros) doesn't do us any favours as the torque convertor doesn't lock up hence the running away feeling people experience versus 1st low in a manual. A torque convertor lock up kit or marks adapters I have been told will assist in giving us the 1st low experience we really miss out on. My suspension setup is in the signature and is a bit softer compared to some of the bilstein/lovells packs some shorty owners used but travel is a problem no matter what you install. There are aftermarket lockers from TJM (rear only) and ARB (both front and rear) which might also help
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  #9  
Old 04-06-20
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I can only say that my NT-X has so many advantages over my GU 4 Patrol that I seriously never noticed any uneasy feelings caused by its short wheel base. I only have the factory suspension which is a pain thanks to a lack of clearance, but in having said that, I go where my mates 200 series LC goes and he has 10k worth of King Racing suspension under his. As NJ mentioned, the tranny tends to scare you more then anything. I would dearly love to fit Marks reduction gears to the transfer case, along with a transmission lock up. This would transform the decents. Our series supposedly has Engine Brake Assist Control. Personally, I have never made its aquantance, despite calling upon it many a time. I think it only comes out to play if you are in free fall down a muddy and very slippery slope. Not sure what others have to say on EBAC.


Matt.
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Old 04-06-20
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Sometimes getting out (if safe) and having a look from the outside can be very reassuring, as the feeling from the drivers seat seems to exaggerate side angles, at least for me. You do get used to how it feels, just build up slowly.
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