Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum

Go Back   Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum > Commercial Advertisers > Commercial Advertisers > MM 4X4

MM 4X4 Affordable Vehicle Electronics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-08-18
m_and_m's Avatar
m_and_m m_and_m is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide
Posts: 1,619
Default Why the Pajero Sport transmission isn't silky smooth

I've been away in Queensland this week with a Pajero Sport hire car and just gave it back.

This gave me a great chance to play with an understand the new 8 speed transmission, and to see if it would benefit from developing a lockup-mate for it.

Here are my observations.

My first impression was the gear changes were very noticeable - as also observed in this thread
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=61965

I spent a lot of time understanding when the transmission locked up and when it didn't.
My testing was done in SPORT mode, 2H. No testing in 4H or 4LLc.

Here are my conclusions:
1. it doesn't lockup in 1st and 2nd gear at all
2. in 3rd to 8th gears it locks up at ~1900rpm, and stays locked until you drop revs to ~1200 RPM, even if you accelerate gently.
3. If you accelerate firmly between 1500 and 1900 RPM (in 3rd-6th) when locked, it will unlock (to give you power) and then re-lock again at about 2000-2400RPM depending on the accelerator pedal position.
4. When in 7th or 8th gear it doesn't do this. At low RPM (say 1300), it just stays locked if you accelerate firmly and you get very poor engine response. There is no shudder in the driveline like you'd get with a Gen4 Pajero
5. When you take you foot off the accelerator it unlocks. The moment you apply acceleration again it re-lock immediately. You see this as a little wobble on the tacho needle.
6. As you accelerate in DRIVE, you see the RPM drop significantly with each gear change (~400 RPM) and there is no torque converter slippage, So you also don't get that spongy auto feel either.

So the reason the gear shifts are not as smooth as a Gen4 Pajero or a Challenger is the 8 speed transmission is programmed to lockup the torque converter to eliminate the slippage.

In contrast, the Gen4 Pajero and challenger let the torque converter slip, which generates heat, uses more fuel...but make it smoother in operation.

So my lockup-mate/auto-mate products maximise torque converter lockup and make the Gen 4 Paj and the Challenger transmissions operate pretty much the same as the 8 speed transmission in the Paj Sport. This is comforting

With the 8 speed Pajero Sport you get all the benefits of lower transmission temperatures and better fuel economy, BUT, the gear changes are more noticeable. ie not 'as smooth'

I think this answers the question people often ask about why didn't they just lockup the torque converter like they should have from factory.....because if they did, some people don't like it because it's not as smooth. With a 5 speed transmission the spacing of gear ratios are wider hence is even more noticeable than in a 8 speed.
People expect an auto transmission to be silky smooth and the slipping torque converter allow this feeling.
In the Pajero Sport it works more or less like a clutchless manual, and this just takes a little getting used to. It's not bad, just different...and in my opinion better.

Will I develop a lockup-mate for a Pajero Sport? No.
It is already programmed correctly and will give better fuel economy and lower transmission temperatures than if they'd let the torque converter slip more.
I reckon you can tow with confidence in a Pajero Sport that you're not going to overheat the transmission. Wouldn't mind hearing the opinions from PS owners though.


Hmmm...should I develop an unlockup-mate product to make the transmission smoother?
__________________
2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, ARB BBar | OME 2" lift | Airbags | Safari snorkel | GME UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | TPMS | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-mate
2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too

Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate or lockup-mate now available for Pajero NS+, Triton MN,MQ, Challenger PB,PC, Prado 150

Last edited by m_and_m; 03-08-18 at 05:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-08-18
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Posts: 7,907
Default

Upshift, downshift and TC lockup profiles for Pajero Sport in this thread;
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...96&postcount=2


OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-08-18
m_and_m's Avatar
m_and_m m_and_m is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Upshift, downshift and TC lockup profiles for Pajero Sport in this thread;
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...96&postcount=2

OJ.
Great details OJ. Thanks.
__________________
2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, ARB BBar | OME 2" lift | Airbags | Safari snorkel | GME UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | TPMS | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-mate
2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too

Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate or lockup-mate now available for Pajero NS+, Triton MN,MQ, Challenger PB,PC, Prado 150
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-08-18
pfgrobler pfgrobler is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Centurion. South Africa
Posts: 30
Default

Great info

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-08-18
DID Dash DID Dash is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 202
Default

Interesting observations m & m. I rarely drive autos but in the past was frustrated with my NS shorty diesel with Jatco auto. That was enough to get me back into a manual (Challenger) last vehicle change. Now just into a Pajero Sport and quite like the positive shift characteristics. Sometimes feels a bit busy getting off the mark but does a good job at being in the right gear at the right time. I drive in 4H at all times, but used low range gravel and sand mode over the weekend. Very impressed with it so far. Sand mode in particular holds the lower gears longer and provides plenty of revs.
__________________
17MY Pajero Sport, Factory Towbar, King Springs KCRS-23/Pedders 5899 Cones, 265/70R17 A/T's for the rough trips.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
model: pajero sport or model: pajero, series: sport? PaulN Pajero Sport QE 2015 - 2019 9 18-05-16 02:35 PM
Different version Smooth Criminal GOSSAMER Bits and Pieces 3 14-11-15 05:05 PM
smooth idlling newbie4wd Generation 3 Pajero 3 06-02-09 02:28 PM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.