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  #11  
Old 13-12-19
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Do speed vs drag curves exist for the Pajero body.
Have a look at this site, https://www.automobile-catalog.com/m...3_5d/2017.html
Reason for this comment: The faster you go the greater the cost ( potential or actual).
My arbitrary preferred max. speed is 90 km/Hr. Makes a lot of B doubles unhappy.


Ok so I'm bored or something but to follow up on above re drag.


Lets say the drag coefficient for the Pajero is 0.42 and the drag area is 2.89 sqm.
DragxArea is 0.42x2.89 = 1.2138
Force to over come drag,Drag Force, is 0.5xAir DensityxDragAreaxSpeedxSpeed
assume Air Density=1
then Drag Force for
50Km/Hr: =0.5x1x1.2138x50x50 = 1517.25 (ignore the Units as this is a comparative evaluation)
90Km/Hr: =0.5x1x1.2138x90x90 = 4915.89
100Km/Hr: =0.5x1x1.2138x100x100 = 6069
110Km/Hr: =0.5x1x1.2138x110x110 = 7343.49
What does this mean? Well if you drive an ex factory Pajero with no add ons like roof racks bull bars etc the energy to overcome drag force is proportional to your speed as follows:
110 vs 50 is 7343.49/1517.25 = 4.84 more energy(fuel) required.
110 vs 100 is 7343.49/6069 = 1.21 more energy
110 vs 90 is 7343.49/4915.89 = 1.49 more energy


So while stressing you wallet with a fine for exceeding the speed limit your adding a further impost from fuel consumption all because of a few minutes/hours in your lifetime.
Besides most drivers can't control of any vehicle suffering a failure such as a tyre blow out or other emergency at speed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pajero Drag Curve.jpg (79.2 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by Pushbike; 16-12-19 at 07:54 AM. Reason: More info.correct error
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  #12  
Old 13-12-19
dean dean is offline
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Regardless of their motivation, the facts are they are there.
I have 4 cars and 1 motorbike....all speedos are about 5-10% out.
In simple terms if the speedo says 60, i'm doing obviously less.
I'd be surprised if i'm the only one.
Stick to the speed limit and you'll be right.

Governments will look for any way of raising money. I'd rather speeding drivers pay it. The alternative is taxes are increased and we all pay.
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Last edited by dean; 13-12-19 at 09:37 AM.
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  #13  
Old 15-12-19
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I've updated my post re Drag vs Speed
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  #14  
Old 15-12-19
haggis haggis is offline
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I would question th eassertion that ‘speed kills’. It should be more along the lines of inappropriate speed kills.

I am a volunteer road rescue operator and attend around 30 to 50 road crashes each year. In most of those, inattention, drugs and alcohol are the main contributors to the crash. Of the fatals I have attended this year, speed has been a factor in 2 of them. In one (which was a suicide) the speed was a factor, as was the drivers intent and the fact there wasnt a seatbelt being used. In the other, the driver fell asleep while speeding. In this case, the driver would still most likely have been deceased whether he was doing the speed limit or not.

In my opinion and experience, cameras are revenue raising. Police cars travelling up and down highways are far more effective. And could enforce other poor behaviours on the road such as keeping left unless overtaking, phone use, poorly maintained vehicles, and general poor attitudes and arrogant behaviours. Cameras, however, are cheaper to install and create a positive revenue stream.

Reducing speed limits, actually increases the risk of fatigue. Fatigued drivers have a risk equal to or higher than someone driving while over the BAC limit, or while under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs.



Better driver education and more rigorous testing of drivers should be another high priority.

Haggis.
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  #15  
Old 15-12-19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggis View Post
I would question th eassertion that ‘speed kills’. It should be more along the lines of inappropriate speed kills.

I am a volunteer road rescue operator and attend around 30 to 50 road crashes each year. In most of those, inattention, drugs and alcohol are the main contributors to the crash. Of the fatals I have attended this year, speed has been a factor in 2 of them. In one (which was a suicide) the speed was a factor, as was the drivers intent and the fact there wasnt a seatbelt being used. In the other, the driver fell asleep while speeding. In this case, the driver would still most likely have been deceased whether he was doing the speed limit or not.

In my opinion and experience, cameras are revenue raising. Police cars travelling up and down highways are far more effective. And could enforce other poor behaviours on the road such as keeping left unless overtaking, phone use, poorly maintained vehicles, and general poor attitudes and arrogant behaviours. Cameras, however, are cheaper to install and create a positive revenue stream.

Reducing speed limits, actually increases the risk of fatigue. Fatigued drivers have a risk equal to or higher than someone driving while over the BAC limit, or while under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs.



Better driver education and more rigorous testing of drivers should be another high priority.

Haggis.
I completely agree.
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  #16  
Old 15-12-19
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+1 to Haggis.

Meanwhile I get pinged by a speed camera in the middle of an overtaking lane.

Here I am trying to help traffic flow by going a little over the limit and there is a speed trap smack- bang right there just before the lane ends. Never even looked like having an accident in 30+ years of driving but a few k's over in an overtaking lane makes me a bad driver apparently...
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  #17  
Old 15-12-19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushbike View Post
Do speed vs drag curves exist for the Pajero body.
Have a look at this site, https://www.automobile-catalog.com/m...3_5d/2017.html
Reason for this comment: The faster you go the greater the cost ( potential or actual).
My arbitrary preferred max. speed is 90 km/Hr. Makes a lot of B doubles unhappy.


Ok so I'm bored or something but to follow up on above re drag.


Lets say the drag coefficient for the Pajero is 0.45 and the drag area is 1.216 sqm.
DragArea is 0.45x1.216 = 0.51072
Force to over come drag,Drag Force, is 0.5xAir DensityxDragAreaxSpeedxSpeed
assume Air Density=1
then Drag Force for
50Km/Hr: =0.5x1x0.51072x50x50 = 637.5 (ignore the Units as this is a comparative evaluation)
90Km/Hr: =0.5x1x0.51072x90x90 = 2065.5
100Km/Hr: =0.5x1x0.51072x100x100 = 2550
110Km/Hr: =0.5x1x0.51072x110x110 = 3085.5
What does this mean? Well if you drive an ex factory Pajero with no add ons like roof racks bull bars etc the energy to overcome drag force is proportional to your speed as follows:
110 vs 50 is 3085.5/637.5 = 4.84 more energy(fuel) required.
110 vs 100 is 3085.5/2550 = 1.21 more energy
110 vs 90 is 3085.5/2065.5 = 1.49 more energy


So while stressing you wallet with a fine for exceeding the speed limit your adding a further impost from fuel consumption all because of a few minutes/hours in your lifetime.
Besides most drivers can't control of any vehicle suffering a failure such as a tyre blow out or other emergency at speed.



Really? So your logic is drive at 20kph and save a couple of dollars!! If your one of the dolts that sit on 90kph in a perfectly good car on a highway then your part of the problem ..not the solution. Sick and tired of rubber neckers, idiots, many p- platers and tossers who shouldn,t be driving on highways or freeways. B doubles and most trucks are professional drivers who spend most of their lives on the road. They have to sit on the speed limit on highways and freeways just to make a living. I dare say they are a lot better driver than most on the road. There are far more dickhead drivers among the general population than there are among the trucking fraternity. The number of people I see on the Bruce Highway that sit on 90kph, until they hit the overtaking lanes and then suddenly they find 100kph is a nice speed, is unbelievable.
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  #18  
Old 15-12-19
disco stu disco stu is offline
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Not real fair hacking a go at p platers for doing the speed they are told they have to do on order to keep their licence long enough to get off their p plates in order to do the speed limit. I remember many many years having cars annoyed with me for driving "slow" when I was just going the fastest I was allowed. After having been disqualified for 1.5 years I wasn't going to lose my licence again

The others, yes, fair enough...to a point.

Truck drivers might be good drivers, but I've seen my share of cowboys. I literally got run off the road by one overtaking me over double lines coming up to the crest of a hill. He started gong around me, car came along the other way, he just went straight back into my lane. I just saw these massive wheels coming straight towards me. If he waited a few hundred meters he could have done it fine. I was doing the speed limit, or probably over knowing what I was like back then. But yes, seen more dodgy car drivers. I just don't like people acting like all truckies are great on the road
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  #19  
Old 15-12-19
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I think the original post was referring to the financial cost of exceeding the speed limit.
I referred to just one of the cost components of driving a motor vehicle.


The speed that a road user selects should be related to what the driver considers safest considering their particular circumstances, e.g towing a trailer, their age, their responsibility to their passengers and of course other road users.
To my knowledge there isn't any min. or max speed mandated.


Re truck drivers, " They have to sit on the speed limit on highways and freeways just to make a living", are they driving at the speed limit or at the safest speed? Do they make a better living by driving faster. What speed would that be?

Should trucks be given full or priority use of the roads? Should there be a curfew for non heavy transport vehicles, e.g. cars, car and trailer,motor homes, motor cycles?
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