Rear Diff oil Capacity

[PC Challenger]

Hi guys. Abit confused.
Service book states 2.1L for the rear diff. Castrol and penrite state 3.2L
And the rear diff took nearly 4L before it ran out the filler hole.
Cars level on the ground. Not jacked.
Ideas?
Cheers

[old Jack]

There appears to be a difference between different models, it may have something to do with open diff vs Hybrid LSD vs RDL.

Ok the 2009-2011 Challenger Service Manual states,

"Check that gear oil level is not 8 mm below the bottom of filler plug hole. If the gear oil level is lower than the lower limit, add the oil until the level comes to the lower portion of the filler plug hole"

4WD
2.6 litres 2500-M/T (KH4WGNMZL/R), 2500-A/T, 3000, 3500-A/T
3.2 litres 2500-M/T (Except KH4WGNMZL/R), 3500-MT

OJ.

[PC Challenger]

From the 2009 -2011 Sevice Manual
There appears to be a difference between different models, it may have something to do with open diff vs Hybrid LSD vs RDL.

I also seem to recall a Service Instruction or something similar about refilling the rear diff and the level being 28mm???? below the filler plug.
Not sure so I will do some searching.

4WD
2.6 litres 2500-M/T (KH4WGNMZL/R), 2500-A/T, 3000, 3500-A/T
3.2 litres 2500-M/T (Except KH4WGNMZL/R), 3500-M/T

OJ.

Memory is not too bad!
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=57573

28mm lol thats a joke.

Ok OJ cheers for your help.

[itsamitsi]

Yeah off the top of my head it was under 3 litres.

[PC Challenger]

There appears to be a difference between different models, it may have something to do with open diff vs Hybrid LSD vs RDL.

Ok the 2009-2011 Challenger Service Manual states,

"Check that gear oil level is not 8 mm below the bottom of filler plug hole. If the gear oil level is lower than the lower limit, add the oil until the level comes to the lower portion of the filler plug hole"

4WD
2.6 litres 2500-M/T (KH4WGNMZL/R), 2500-A/T, 3000, 3500-A/T
3.2 litres 2500-M/T (Except KH4WGNMZL/R), 3500-MT

OJ.

But currently it at the filler plug with about 3.9L in it.
I no i dropped just under 3L out.

Im unsure about the part numbers above. Is the Pc challenger 2.6L?

[PC Challenger]

Challenger owners books states 2.1
Workshop manual states 3.2 L

[wasarangie]

When the Challenger was released they had the oil at filler plug level. There was a large amount of axle seal leaks reported. So the solution was to lower the diff oil level on Challenger, Triton and now Sport. they are measured on level ground and vehicle on wheels. the acceptable level is 28-38mm below the filler plug. The early disks supplied by MMA advise to fill to plug level which is now not correct. The owners manuals that were released after the update have the correct capacity listed. From memory if the vehicle is lifted and stock shocks, wheels hanging, it is measured 10mm less, 18 - 28mm.

[Toddyh]

I've been putting in 3.2L for the last 160,000km. That's usually at or near the filler hole.

[littleriver]

[XLS PB Challenger]

Hi,

What brand and type of diff oil do you recommended for the rear diff with a factory diff locker on PB challenger?

Cheers
Paul

[Kingbrown]

For me it's Penrite Gear Oil 80W-90.

[XLS PB Challenger]

For me it's Penrite Gear Oil 80W-90.

and you have a factory diff locker too?

[Kingbrown]

and you have a factory diff locker too?

Yes, factory locker on mine (PB 2012 LS)

[SwampFox55]

When the Challenger was released they had the oil at filler plug level. There was a large amount of axle seal leaks reported. So the solution was to lower the diff oil level on Challenger, Triton and now Sport. they are measured on level ground and vehicle on wheels. the acceptable level is 28-38mm below the filler plug. The early disks supplied by MMA advise to fill to plug level which is now not correct. The owners manuals that were released after the update have the correct capacity listed. From memory if the vehicle is lifted and stock shocks, wheels hanging, it is measured 10mm less, 18 - 28mm.

Measuring the Rear Diff Oil Level

References:

1. Kingbrown's post of 19-03-15 (SB 27-2011-002 change to 'within 18mm')
2. old Jack's post of 21-07-18 (superceded Service Manual advice of '8mm')
3. wasarangie's post of 22-07-18 (added Pajero Sport & possible hoisted level)
4. SB Attachments referring to revised rear diff oil level for 2.5lt A/T Challenger to -18mm.
5. There is a big difference between '18mm' (fixed) and 'within 18mm' (variable, right up to the filler hole). Both are on the SBs.

1. I recently checked my car's rear diff oil level to see where it sat with respect to the level specified in the 2012 Mitsy Service Bulletin (SB). I'd read the SB several years ago but when I last changed the oil I didn't worry too much about the exact level and just set it a little below the filler hole, which turned out to be -10mm.

2. After re-reading this thread I wondered how significant the weeping axle seal problem really was. Ref 3 said Challengers had a lot. Was it more likely on Challengers than Tritons and if so why?

3. Then there's the new spec. Why -18mm and not a rounded number like -20mm? Was the level derived from examining seals that stopped leaking because the level had dropped to -18mm? Plenty of tradie Tritons are parked overnight on sloping nature strips that allow the oil to overflow the -18mm mark. Anyone who thinks cars are always parked overnight on level surfaces needs to get out more. Millions of cars have diffs filled to the hole and one would expect the design of the Mitsy diff housing to have been bullet proof well before they poured steel into the mould.

4. The references above reveal that Mitsy didn't bother getting on top of the leaking axle seal issue and it was simply carried over to the Pajero Sport. Is this issue common across the auto industry and if not, why didn't Mitsy just sack the component supplier and get another with better seals or, change the viscosity?

5. If it's important enough to lower the oil level into a magic Goldilocks Zone below the filler hole, an upper and lower limit should be specified that is pragmatically achievable by everyday mechanics eg from 15 to 20mm below the filler hole. The SB is non sequitur.

6. There's an old post that claimed the check had to be done with the car standing on a flat surface. After doing this myself I don't expect many dealer mechanics will drop to the floor to check the level. Remember this is an ongoing issue for the life of these vehicles. So where does this end? It's easy for HQ to send out a SB that ends up being just too much trouble to comply with on the garage floor. It's just put in the too hard basket and the owner will never know anyway. If it leaks, tough, someone will spin a yarn. If the check is commonly done on the hoist, then the SB should state the appropriate numbers for OEM suspension, refer Ref C.

7. Regardless of the actual figure/s, I wasn't impressed with Mitsy recommending an allen key to check the level. Think about the accuracy of using that tool versus the accuracy required to 18mm, if indeed it is so important. Murphy's Law dictates that there are now a few allen keys sitting in the bottom of Triton and Challenger diffs.

8. So after a bit of thought I made a dipstick to read the -18mm drop accurately. It was reasonably quick to make using two pairs of pliers but required some further simple mods to fit. The attached photos show the socket sizes required for the diff plugs plus the dipstick. It's made from a clothes hanger wire with some masking tape wrapped around the tip to hold the oil so it can be read after pulling it out. It has a spring handle to hold it steady. Simply resting the top of the stick on the bottom of the filler hole while holding the handle vertically, measures the oil depth inside the diff accurately. The first kink measures the 18mm drop and the others are to clear the ring gear and check the oil level during filling.

9. It was a time consuming job just to check and adjust as it required considerable set-up time, then moving left and right a few times to measure, release a little oil, then going back to remeasure, etc. However, the next time I change the oil it'll be easy because I'll just top-up and measure while remaining on the LHS. Let's hope the new Triton has the filler hole in the right place and axle seals that work. If this fault is carried across to this major joint redesign with Nissan, under Renault's supervision, it'll be a disgrace. If they can't get something as simple as a seal to work, what about the important stuff.

10. As my PB's getting on these days, this time around I used Bursons' home brand oils. The TC is now shifting better than ever before! Physically easier to shift the lever with fewer flashing light events and cleaner positive shifts on the fly. Love that car. Why? Super Select's viscous coupling.

The new Triton's out tomorrow and Misty's leaving China!

[old Jack]

4 years, 2 months and 5 days between post SF55 long time no see mate! Good to have you back and hope all is well.

I suspect 99,9% of Tritons, PB/PC Challengers, Pajero Sports and Gen 2 Pajero's (that have the same rear diff) would not have the rear diff oil level correct.
Given the surface area of the diff oil at the near full mark includes the surface area of the oil in both the diff housing and axle tubes, and the oil is thick when cold, I would suggest that it would take some time for the oil level to settle when either draining or topping up the oil and most people would not take the tome to allow the oil to level off.

Personally I would use the current method as per the Pajero Sport Service Manual which details the different oil levels depending on if the suspension is at normal weighted ride height or at full droop, as for vehicles with raised suspension and longer droop travel, you would just have to do an estimated compensation.
Noting there is also a difference between a 10 bolt and a 12 bolt diff carrier.

I am due to do the diff oils in the next few months so I will take particular notice of oil quantities drained vs oil used to refill to the "correct" level.
This will be the first diff service since the 10 year/160,000km warranty expired so I am now doing my own services.

OJ.