Pb Pc lift kit.

[old Jack]

I don't like the measurement from wheel hub the bottom of guard. Doesn't take into consideration larger tyres.

Front - I use the front cross member as a ref point.

Rear - bottom of rear tow bar.

This way measures both suspension and tyre hight.

Agree Rob, but the centre hub to under wheel arch is the standard method of measuring suspension lift then any further change in ride height by fitting tyres with greater overall diameter in based on the theoretical calculation or tyre width & profile combined with rim diameter.

See post #5 of this thread for the current NSW regs, I believe this is what will be eventually adopted Austraila wide but it may take several years for the rest of the states to see the light!

cheers, old Jack.

[fester]

I don't like the measurement from wheel hub the bottom of guard. Doesn't take into consideration larger tyres.

Front - I use the front cross member as a ref point.

Rear - bottom of rear tow bar.

This way measures both suspension and tyre hight.

To a degree I agree but it depends on what the conversation covers. Most the time the talk is simply about suspension lifts and the hub/guard figures this this easily. IF we are talking ground clearance then that is different but then you have to make sure the poster is clarifying their tyre size, even more confusing for some if you look at say a Triton where there are several original tyre combos. It also stems from other brands where there are differing original spring heights across model variants etc.

Usually easier in a forum situation with people of varying mechanical knowledge to just stick with a constant which seems to have developed from just the spring height.

[Ent]

While in the field actual clearance is what counts, it is suspension lift that matters when playing with springs. The underlying consideration is getting the spring height as high as possible without compromising too greatly things like stability, tyre wear and driveline.

Older 4wds like the 100 Cruiser that used solid front axles are rather more straightforward to raise. Wishbone suspension has much more built in limits, especially ones that are built to a price like the Challenger.

For better or worse we have a legal limit on the front of 462mm. The extra 20mm would be appreciated along with less "collapse" onto rocks when riding over rough stuff. I am looking at a spring height and stiffness that will do this. So at a crawling speed the vehicle rides over rocks but still has enough complaince to absorb bumps at normal driving speeds.

Mega lifts above say 30mm place strain on driveline components that might result in vibrations, especially on the rear diveline. Also, on the front may impact on tyre wear without camber correction. As such warranty can legitimately be made void.

I can not but help notice the wide variations in lift heights posted. This makes me nervous as spending $1500 for no gain is not much chop while having 75mm and driveline issue even less so.

So I have as my goal of 20-30mm with good ride but increased stiffness at low speed.

Cheers

[schnitzel]

Noticed people saying is hard to get a correct measurement from the centre of hub to the guard lip, is not difficult to get it correct just use a spirit level on your tape edge to make it vertical, if you are on level ground it will always find the same spot. On the guard

[Ent]

Noticed people saying is hard to get a correct measurement from the centre of hub to the guard lip, is not difficult to get it correct just use a spirit level on your tape edge to make it vertical, if you are on level ground it will always find the same spot. On the guard

Just have to love the internet. Where was it when I was at school Lets assume 50mm difference between where the guard sticks out and the hub is on a standard Mitsubishi wheel. My 545mm measurements of the hypothalamus becomes 543mm using the right angle trig calculation, or just use the movable drawing So rough rule of thumb, measure straight from the guard edge to the wheel up in the centre of the Mitsubishi logo, and knock off say 2 or 3mm and you have the height. So mine is probably exactly in the middle for the front suspension. That is a manual with steel bash plates.

[fester]

Yes a point I forgot Ent, so many people are over thinking something by its nature that can't be 100% infallibly accurate. Pretty much everyone is measuring by holding the tape pretty much in the middle of the hub and pretty much straight up to the guard. Even variances of 5 ish mm are hardly worth considering. I guarantee you if 2 people went and bought the same suspension kit from the same supplier and put them on 2 equally standard cars there could be a variance of a couple of mm.

No one has even clarified exactly how the legal measurement was performed, even different tape measures can have a variance of a mm or 2.

[Ent]

Hi

The apparently endless research continues. Anyone used or has much idea on Tough Dog. Their claimed lift is a modest 25mm with spring options to deal with standard, bullbar, bullbar plus winch. Claim load is 0+300 for the rear which probably suits me. As mentioned this modest lift is about what I am aiming at.

Now always a bit dubious of what been told but the bloke selling the setup is the bloke fitting it and appeared aware of what to watch for. Interesting he is a fan of Bilstein shocks but did mention that they tend to use one valve configuration suits all, while he claims Tough Dog spend more time on valve combinations. On another thread the lack of Bilstein fine tuning the valve configuration was mentioned.

About $2,100 fitted so some thought is needed. Also decision on bullbar and winch to be made. Rather tempted by the Rhino bar with a winch with rope rather than cable to keep the front axle weight under control. Apparently that saves 16kg which given it is ahead of the front axle could reduce the impact on handling.

So thoughts and experience please. The other option on the short list is the BushskinZ Bilstein option.

Cheers

[02-SR5]

Way to many people get hung up on how high a suspension lift will go.

No two are exact, it is a rough guestimate.

If you go with a quality suspension product that suits your needs, fit that.

Dont lose sleep if one says 30mm lift and another says 50mm lift. It is a guess.

Go with a reputable suspension company, fit some 265/70/17 A/T tyres and you will be more than happy with the performance.

As for bullbar, I am a fan of ARB and I have just fitted a Runva 11xp winch with rope.

However, I wish companies took into consideration when designing their bullbars when fitting a winch when the bar is fitted. It is a pain in the arse to fit a winch when the bar is fitted if it is not designed to.

The Jeep Wrangler has the best set up. Just drop the winch into the bar and bolt on. 5 min job.

[littleriver]

.

x2

nice choice of tire size also .... giving overall clearance .... approx. 1/2inch in tyre height ( A/T tread approx. 1/2 inch)
could be the 1 inch lift just there

most of the lifts give a body lift ... still have to clear the diffs

*** might have to ask the expert OJ to clarify ***

.

The other day I was in the local car park was parked next to a 2010 Pajero, I noticed that the side
steps looked a little lower - so I did a quick measure (yeps approx 2 inches lower then the 2012 Challenger side steps)
ground clearance on the pajero is 225mm and challenger is 220mm (so has 5mm up on us) stock ...


.

[old Jack]

Ent,
Static ground clearance is not the most important thing, if you go too high in the lift and too hard with the springs then suspension articulation will be compromised and this will limit you off road.
Trust me on this, go linear rate coils at the front and progressive rate coils in the rear, aim for the 565mm front and 580mm rear at your fully accessorised running kerb weight, use good quality springs and shockers. You should be able to do this for less than $2K fitted.

cheers, old Jack.

[Ent]

Yeap Old-Jack they are the numbers that I am looking at. Main thing I want is suspension that does not collapse to readily to the bump stops, or so hard that wheel articulation does not happen. This is more important to me than a head line suspension height lift height number. For warranty and legal reasons I do want to keep around the 25mm mark so for better or worse the upper limit is important, if only for that reason.

When testing out arch clearance on the 265/75/16 MT I was rather amazed that by placing the static load of the vehicle by balancing it on two wheels slightly nose down the front suspension on the compressed side was sitting on the bump stops with no load in the vehicle. This translate to the vehicle "collapsing" as the left and right wheels ride over rocks with a slight nose down drop. So despite higher static ground clearance than a 2007 Ranger Ute the Challenger bumped a lot more on rocky tracks with the gentle drops being particularly challenging. Even at idle speed it was hard to roll over the rocks.

I have a thought process to go through with the winch or no winch debate. I much prefer a slow and steady recovery than snatch strap approach. But frankly, I pike situations where I need to be recovered much preferring not to push the limits. The decision on suspension is forcing my hand on this issue.

I drove a Ranger Ute fitted with massive bull bar and steel cable winch, and it was horrible. The Ranger normally is a nicely balanced ute,but this was a nose heavy pig that could wander in a straight line and bump steer on the most minor imperfection in the road surface.

But Rhino have not replied to my email so may well abandon the winch idea.

The trick is to get suspension fitted locally. Sadly, we do not have an independent suspension shop in the North of Tassie that I am aware of. I have seen too many botched suspension jobs so rather more circumspect on this issue than otherwise I would be.

Cheers

[02-SR5]

Isnt there an ARB in North Tassie?

I too prefer a winch over a snatch. I run a Runva 11xp and paid $650 delivered.

ARB do a complete suspension kit that would suit you. They do a basic suspension kit to a full HD with rear bars and winches. Their springs and shocks are designed specific to each other.

Just some food for thought.

[old Jack]

Hi Ent,

Sorry you are not getting the answers you are looking for, but suspension upgrades are not a one size fits all solution.

Suspension, if you want to get it right the first time round then you need to know you front and rear weights, either a weigh-bridge or you can do a calculation as follows;

Front weight (stock factory) is about 1100 kg, then add the weight of;
a) front passengers
b) under body guards
c) bullbar
d) winch
e) aux battery
f) extra weight of LT tyres

Front axle limit is 1260kg, so you can see it is really easy to exceed this!

Rear weight (stock factory) is about 950kg, then add the weight of;
a) Rear passengers
b) Towbar
c) aux battery
d) roof rack
e) fridge
f) recovery gear.
g) tools
h) tow ball down load (if towing)
i) what ever else you want to carry

Rear axle limit is 1600kg and it is not hard to exceed this either.

Once you have your weights then it is easy to calculate required spring rates.

Ride height is dependant on spring rates and spring free length as this is fairly easy to calculate also.

Difficulty is get spring rates and free lengths from spring manufacturers, also on rear coils you need to know if they are progressive rate variable, 2 stage linear or linear so on these you need a rate of change table or graph.

In regards to a winch, I was going to fit one, having had power winches for 35 years, but no matter how hard I tried I could not get the numbers to add up. I ended up buying 2 sets of Maxtraxs, this is about the same price as a cheap winch, lighter, more flexible and safer to use.

cheers, old Jack.

[02-SR5]

There is an ARB dealer in Devonport (North West 4wd) and Launceston (ARB). Dont know how far they are from you, but may be worth a try.

Not sure what your exactly trying to achieve, lift, load carrying or both.

Decide what you want long term and decide on a suspension package to suit.

[Ent]

Done the sums and decided that a bull bar with winch is not for me, again. Honestly, bit annoyed by Rhino censorship approach so decided stuff it. Also, given my level (or lack of) willingness to push the limits highly unlikely that I will use one. Not having a Challenger in such a configuration to test drive also worried by the handling implications. So now to hunt for a Tirfor winch. Also may consider down the track a front locker if I get too adventurous.

So with that decided looking at suspension options. While for reasons that I can not give a valid logical reason for to I am rather anti ARB. But having said that they are on the right lift mms so will approach the local store.

Tough Dog at this stage tick many of the boxes but decided to email Climax for their setup. Happy to spend up big on quality dampeners. But as mentioned the valving is important so bit wary on Bisteins. Rather tempted by the top of the line Koni dampeners.

So at least I have worked out what I am aiming for, which in many ways the most important thing.

Cheers