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  • nearly there
    Member
    • Oct 2015
    • 55
    • Halls Head

    Rear suspension airbags

    Just chasing views and experiences just got back from towing a camper trailer out bush and found the rear sagged with trailer on a lot, The setup is standard its a 2016 NX i am looking at putting on air bags to level ride when towing, Does anyone have airbags installed already and if so what brand do you recomend, I dont want to change the suspension if not needed as the ride is great and off road performed great without camper on.
    cheers Martin
  • pauld
    Valued Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2222
    • Melbourne

    #2
    Depends on your ball weight & how loaded the car is but I think you will find the bags won't be enough to level things out
    2015 NX, ARB Bullbar, Bilstein / Lovells HD Front and Kings SP Rear, Polyairs, 17" NP Exceed wheels, D697 LT265/65/17, STEDI Cree 24" 120Watt light bar, Tracklander 2100 Roof Cage, Bushskinz side steps and bash plates, 200AH of Batts under rear floor via Redarc 40 Amp, cargo barrier with custom rear shelf up high, TC mod, EGR mod, catch can, iPhone4 with OBD app, USB ports in all 3 rows, custom storage in rear passenger guard.

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    • sharkcaver
      "2000"+ Valued Contributor
      • May 2009
      • 6270
      • Perth

      #3
      Like Paul says, you cant beat springs rated to the load. But airbags can and do help.

      I put firestone bags in mine this time around. I haven't had the camper on the back to comment on their performance as yet.

      I have polyairs in the NP.

      My observations between both:

      The polyair bag is a nice firm fit in the spring and have been there for 100,000Km's faultlessly. The poly air requires a hole drilled in the upper spring cup. Some seem to have an issue with that.
      Airline secured to a barbed fitting with a butterfly clip.

      The firestone bag is a loose fit in the spring. I noticed on my last outing, you could hear the bag rub on the spring, it squeaks a little. You can fit a kevlar bag to these and increase the inflation pressure (something I think I will have to do). A mate with a new prado and same camper as mine went down that route on my advice. He had to go to max inflation pressure to level his ride. However, he states at these high pressures, the ride is very harsh. These require no hole to be drilled as the line exits at the bottom. I was a bit reluctant about that, however after install, I have changed my mind. Its very easy to do and will be secure enough.
      The airline is secured with a push in fitting. Not as good in my mind. But if I get 100,000Km faultless KM's out of them, like the poly air, then all will be good.


      So in summary, I dont think the bags are as good as a rated spring for the load, but they certainly dont hurt neither.
      MY16 NX GLX5 with just a few bits added. MY14 D-max spacecab, also with a few bits added.

      My Journeys

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      • Ian H
        Valued Member
        • May 2015
        • 2491
        • Melbourne

        #4
        You'd be better off with a light weight WD hitch in my opinion. Air bags might level things up but some reports are that they are not good for the chassis, being too harsh. The guy who put my suspension in advised against them. I have RidePro springs with Rox shocks and a lift of about 45 at the back and the ride is great. I tow a 16' van too, and the set up with a Keme WDH works great.
        Last edited by Ian H; 07-07-16, 06:29 PM.
        2015 NX GLS, Factory alloy bar, Kings HD Springs & Koni Shocks with 50mm lift, MM Auto Mate, Paddle shift kit, dual batteries with Redarc DC/DC, LRA 58L tank, Safari snorkel, Boo's bash plates (full set), 17" steels with BFG KO2's, Drifta drawers with slide, TPMS, Uniden UH8080S, Alpine iLX-702D head unit.

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        • dunney
          Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 56
          • port hedland

          #5
          Originally posted by Ian H View Post
          You'd be better off with a light weight WD hitch in my opinion. Air bags might level things up but some reports are that they are not good for the chassis, being too harsh. The guy who put my suspension in advised against them. I have RidePro springs with Rox shocks and a lift of about 45 at the back and the ride is great. I tow a 16' van too, and the set up works great.
          Probably wouldn't be an issue on the pajero-no chassis.never been the biggest fan of wdh. Depending on the couplings on the trailer they may not even be able to be used.Each to their own though

          Comment

          • green troll
            Valued Member
            • Aug 2015
            • 800
            • Adelaide

            #6
            So do people use a WDH on pajeros then. The majority I see do, given a towball weight of around the 180kg limit that most people towing seem to aim for.

            I know without WDH the Pajero seems a lot lighter in the front end. That can't be good for steering and braking.

            Comment

            • Mundy55
              Valued Member
              • Nov 2015
              • 917
              • Gold Coast

              #7
              I've just come back from driving to Broome and back from Sydney, towing a camper. I have polyairs in the rear springs and I think they are great. They reduce the sag substantially, (but not completely) but you need to ensure you pump up the bags before you put the load on. Main benefit is not bottoming out on bumps.

              When I have set up camp, if I am going out and about I reduce the pressure in the bags so the ride is more comfortable. I have a small, quality bicycle pump to pump up the bags (my valves are in the rear bumper) and it takes less than a minute to pump up.

              I had polyairs for 12 years in my last 4wd in which I did 200k km, without any problems with the bags. Just make sure you don't have less than 5psi in them or put more than 30psi (I keep a margin for error and have only ever pumped up to 25psi).

              Comment

              • old Jack
                Regular
                • Jun 2011
                • 11521
                • Adelaide, South Australia.

                #8
                Originally posted by green troll View Post
                So do people use a WDH on pajeros then. The majority I see do, given a towball weight of around the 180kg limit that most people towing seem to aim for.

                I know without WDH the Pajero seems a lot lighter in the front end. That can't be good for steering and braking.
                From a recent post elsewhere;

                Wdh 101
                A correctly set-up WDH (weight distribution hitch) are fantastic at doing what they are designed to do, and that is to distribute the tow ball down loads between the front and rear axles.

                A 100kg tow ball down load actually applies about 140kgs of load on the rear coils on your Challenger, this is because of the leverage effect of the distance behind the rear axle as a percentage of the vehicles wheel base. Once the rear axle load exceeds the front axle load there is weight transfer from the front axle onto the rear axle, this is why the front end goes up. What the WDH does is to stiffen the relationship between the vehicles longitudinal plane (think chassis) and the trailers drawbar, depending on how "stiff" the pivot point at the tow ball becomes determines how much weight is transferred and shared by the front axle. WDH's only transfer the tow ball down load weights and not those in the rear seat or cargo area. WDH's should not be used off-road or on very rough roads, great on smooth roads and with an empty rear seat or cargo area.

                Most camper trailers are not set up for WDH's, due to their poor design and increasing weight forward of the trailer's axle, mean they can actually put as much or even more tow ball downloads than a full size caravan with a WDH fitted.

                Your rear springs suspension should be taking the rear seat, cargo and about 60% of the tow ball downloads if you use a WDH.

                If your trailer does not have a WDH or you travel off-road and on rough roads then your rear suspension must be capable of handling the combined loads that are in the rear seat and cargo area + the tow ball downloads x1.4.

                Failure to have your suspension setup correctly for the loads you carry and over the terrain you traverse will result in premature failure of tyres and suspension components, also the handling and the safety of your vehicle will be seriously impaired, putting both yours and other road users safety at risk. I amazes my that people spend tens of thousands of dollars on vehicles and caravans/camper trailers but neglect to spend a a few thousand on suspension, tyres, couplings, trailer brakes/anti sway and WDH's.

                cheers, OJ.
                Last edited by old Jack; 06-07-16, 09:46 PM. Reason: Incorrect information, correction underlined above.
                2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

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                • Mundy55
                  Valued Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 917
                  • Gold Coast

                  #9
                  Most of what is said in the quoted recent post sounds reasonable but this bit: "......In real terms the weight is actually greater as there is also weight from the front axle that is transferred onto the rear axle, this is why the front end goes up.... " is rubbish. As he states, the lever action of the towball load will increase the load on the rear axle by an amount. If this is 40kg, then the front axle has 40kgs less on it and this is why it goes up. So the load on the rear axle has the load that was on the front axle but this is not additional to the towball weight plus the 40kg from the lever action.
                  Last edited by Mundy55; 06-07-16, 06:39 PM. Reason: 1st; Clarity; 2nd: corrected error - getting too complicated

                  Comment

                  • wazza1965
                    Member
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 176
                    • Brisbane

                    #10
                    I run the Polyair bags with the wrap combined with heavy duty 2" raised Lovell springs. I have had no issues after 30,000km of running around probably over 10k towing. I run 10lb in them when not towing and around 30lb when fully loaded.
                    NM2002 Exceed DID. Safari Snorkel, Garrett GTX2863R Turbo, HPD Intercooler, Synergy / Turbosmart controllers, Mandrel 3" Exhaust Pyro, Built auto, ECB Bar with 12,000lb Winch & Dyneema rope, Rotronic battery system, 2x 120Amp/h AGM AUX batteries, Lovell 2", Airbags, Rhino AT2012, Fiamma Awning. 4x IPF spots 120w HID inserts. Alpine NAV Bluetooth with Type R sound system, UHF Uniden UH8080NB, Couplertec. Rear draw system, 1500w inverter. ARB twin comp / tank, ARB Locker. Evakool. NASA BM-1.

                    Comment

                    • old Jack
                      Regular
                      • Jun 2011
                      • 11521
                      • Adelaide, South Australia.

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mundy55 View Post
                      Most of what is said in the quoted recent post sounds reasonable but this bit: "......In real terms the weight is actually greater as there is also weight from the front axle that is transferred onto the rear axle, this is why the front end goes up.... " is rubbish. As he states, the lever action of the towball load will increase the load on the rear axle by an amount. If this is 40kg, then the front axle has 40kgs less on it and this is why it goes up. So the load on the rear axle has the load that was on the front axle but this is not additional to the towball weight plus the 40kg from the lever action.
                      Hi Mundy, you are correct. I have reread my post and agree it is wrong so I will correct it.
                      The reason you are correct is that once the rear axle load is greater than the front axle load the front axle is no longer the leverage pivot but the rear axle becomes the leverage fulcrum. Weight transfer occurs as you load your vehicle in the rear and apply tow ball down loads so the loads on the rear axle and suspension can easily exceed the manufacturers axle load limit, by using a correctly setup WDH you can transfer some of the weight from the rear axle forward to the front axle. This is a complex subject and worthy of its own thread.

                      cheers, OJ.
                      2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                      MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                      Comment

                      • Pajshomoneroguntero
                        Valued Member
                        • Jul 2013
                        • 1438
                        • Sydney

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mundy55 View Post
                        Most of what is said in the quoted recent post sounds reasonable but this bit: "......In real terms the weight is actually greater as there is also weight from the front axle that is transferred onto the rear axle, this is why the front end goes up.... " is rubbish. As he states, the lever action of the towball load will increase the load on the rear axle by an amount. If this is 40kg, then the front axle has 40kgs less on it and this is why it goes up. So the load on the rear axle has the load that was on the front axle but this is not additional to the towball weight plus the 40kg from the lever action.
                        I don't think it is quite as straight forward. Really need to be talking in terms of turning moment which will be varied by the arm which in turn is a direct function of the position of the centre of gravity and as such since the arms between front and rear axles and the towball are different the weights will differ.
                        NX GLS MY16 Auto: MM Towbar | Spare Lift Kit | Cooper ST MAXX 265/65R17 | SPVi Module mk3.1 | Autosafe Half Cargo Barrier | Torque Pro App | Donaldson 3um 2ndry Fuel Filter | Diff Breathers | GME4500 UHF | Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform | Roley's Rear Bash Plate | Bushskinz Underbody Protection | Airtec Snorkel | Onboard Compressor | Awning | ARB Deluxe Bar | Lightbar | Sherpa4x4 Winch | Bushskinz Sidesteps | Masten TPMS

                        Build Thread

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                        • nearly there
                          Member
                          • Oct 2015
                          • 55
                          • Halls Head

                          #13
                          Thanks for the responses , At this stage i will try air bags only as i do love the ride quality standard and for the ammount of times we will tow the camper should be ok, Time will tell , the only other weight we will be adding is either a replacement long range fuel tank or an aux. fuel tank so when the camper is not on the bags will help level the extra weight of the tank.
                          I have heard ARB are releasing a replacement tank of about 140 ltrs does anyone know when this is happening?
                          cheers Marty

                          Comment

                          • Mundy55
                            Valued Member
                            • Nov 2015
                            • 917
                            • Gold Coast

                            #14
                            Originally posted by nearly there View Post
                            ...I have heard ARB are releasing a replacement tank of about 140 ltrs does anyone know when this is happening?
                            cheers Marty
                            I chased ARB at the beginning of April and was advised it would be around end of August. That probably means October.

                            Comment

                            • skins2380
                              Member
                              • Jun 2015
                              • 159
                              • ACT

                              #15
                              Airbags

                              waiting....waiting.... waiting. ARB were supposed to release the LR fuel tank about now, but its now been put off until the end of the year even then these no guarantee

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