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  • BMChallenger
    Member
    • Jun 2012
    • 211
    • Sunshine Coast, QLD

    Auto trans PB Challenger

    I'm currently on a trip from Queensland through the vic high country!

    I'm using a scangauge 11 for monitoring the vehicle. Watching ATF, engine water temp, boost and kph.

    I spent the last two days doing a bit of driving up very winding roads from 400m elevation to 1200m or so to falls creek and over the hills into bright Victoria.

    Driving up to falls creek in D taking it daily easy on the winding roads to avoid the passengers from vomiting I got the top and had hit 110deg in the trans and it then locked out in 2nd gear to which it fairly quickly started to reduce in trans temp. Engine went up a bit but I wasn't pushing it hard and prob hit max 98deg.

    Driving up a 20km similar road today I used the selective gears and still hit 99feg on the trans no lockout.

    This doesn't seem normal to me? Those temps seem high?

    Not towing, vehicle loaded to about 500kg payload including humans. AT tires, lift, BBar, winch...

    This trip I have been towing my tandem axle 2.5t van and have had to use low range a couple of climbs due to the ability of the motor to pull at an appropriate speed.

    The max trans temp I have seen is 112deg towing in selective gear mode only.

    I recently had trans oil changed by my mechanic who us always done a great job on the car but I haven't been able to verify which fluid he used. I've never had issues before.

    Thoughts? Is this all normal?
    2011 PB Challenger LS 5 seat charcoal grey - ARB bull bar, gme uhf, bushskinz underbody plates, ultimate HD 50mm lift, redarc tow pro, haymen reese tow bar, rhino rack platform, bridgestone d697 a/t tyres, custom built off-road tandem axle caravan!
  • old Jack
    Regular
    • Jun 2011
    • 11521
    • Adelaide, South Australia.

    #2
    Is this normal ?
    Unfortunately yes!
    Keeping the trans in “Drive” is a sure way to get the trans to go into self protect limp mode when driving in these high load conditions, using 2nd and 3rd gears in 4H and keep the revs between 2500 and 3000 results in slow a steady progress without putting too much stress on the torque converter. Unfortunately the torque converter does not lock in either 2nd or 3rd gears so you have to be carefully not to have the torque converter in a very high slip conditions.

    There is hope, I will start working with M-&-M on the “Auto Mate” torque converter lockup kit that will allow the torque converter to be locked up in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gears and be load and speed sensitive. Currently timeline is mid to end of this year before we have the first kits available.

    OJ.
    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

    Comment

    • BMChallenger
      Member
      • Jun 2012
      • 211
      • Sunshine Coast, QLD

      #3
      Originally posted by old Jack View Post
      Is this normal ?
      Unfortunately yes!
      Keeping the trans in “Drive” is a sure way to get the trans to go into self protect limp mode when driving in these high load conditions, using 2nd and 3rd gears in 4H and keep the revs between 2500 and 3000 results in slow a steady progress without putting too much stress on the torque converter. Unfortunately the torque converter does not lock in either 2nd or 3rd gears so you have to be carefully not to have the torque converter in a very high slip conditions.

      There is hope, I will start working with M-&-M on the “Auto Mate” torque converter lockup kit that will allow the torque converter to be locked up in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gears and be load and speed sensitive. Currently timeline is mid to end of this year before we have the first kits available.

      OJ.
      thanks OJ

      I thought as much, just hoped there might be a more positive outlook.

      Mate that would be a lifesaver. I'm going to get my ecu tuned to help improve towing and touring performance I've really struggled with the towing ability but in essence the car is doing pretty well. I've learned to love her and protect her a bit more throughout the trip. We both have a nasty hill to climb tomorrow which will be interesting. Low range 2nd and 3rd will get us there.

      Any suggestions to add to the performance or ability? Plan at the moment is

      Ecu tune asap
      ? Exhaust to match (not sure it's necessary)

      Torque converter lockup kit

      New tyres and keep her serviced as always.
      2011 PB Challenger LS 5 seat charcoal grey - ARB bull bar, gme uhf, bushskinz underbody plates, ultimate HD 50mm lift, redarc tow pro, haymen reese tow bar, rhino rack platform, bridgestone d697 a/t tyres, custom built off-road tandem axle caravan!

      Comment

      • chillipepperz
        Junior Member
        • Feb 2017
        • 41
        • Adelaide

        #4
        Originally posted by old Jack View Post

        There is hope, I will start working with M-&-M on the “Auto Mate” torque converter lockup kit that will allow the torque converter to be locked up in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gears and be load and speed sensitive. Currently timeline is mid to end of this year before we have the first kits available.

        OJ.
        Watching with interest.
        2014 Challenger: Factory tow bar | Factory alloy bullbar | Kings LED’s | Window tint | Kumho Mt-51's | Munji EGR Delete | Provent 200 | Redarc Towpro | UHF in dash| Custom rear drawers and fridge slide | 130AH rear AGM battery | Aldi roof bars and Kings awning | Kings Springs KCFR55T front KCRR23 rear and Bilstein shocks. Soon: guards.

        Comment

        • coughy
          Valued Member
          • May 2014
          • 589
          • Redlands Brisbane QLD

          #5
          oj i have this kit installed into my car

          Designed to give you manual control over the factory lock-up torque converter, while still allowing the transmission to change up and down through the gears as per normal.

          i can lock up in 1st gear when moving BUT
          now the problem is it doesnt shift very nice with the lock up kit installed activated at any given speed or rpm or any gear

          now mine is a special car with all the problems im having and had and fuel usage
          it unlocks the converter at any hint off a hill so i might still not be finished yet with the old girl i think my convertor is lazy but time will tel i will replace it

          but yer i have more info if you wont m8 about the lock up kit as im really in need of this new thing your up to
          My10 PB XLS ,Opposite lock 3 hoop black bullbar ,HID XRAY200MM Spotlights ,Uniden UHF radio,EGR off,Rear cargo barrier,Turbo Replacment and only 45K,265/70 trail climbers, 26 psi boost and 3" full turbo back custom install exhaust ,hid 35 watt driving low beam,Custom day LED running lights,dual battery kit and wiring ,105amp hour battery , 50 AMP anderson plug front and back ,raised 2" Electric Brake controller.
          New Custom Ultimate diesel tuning REMAP,custom rail limiter.

          Comment

          • coughy
            Valued Member
            • May 2014
            • 589
            • Redlands Brisbane QLD

            #6
            Originally posted by BMChallenger View Post
            thanks OJ

            I thought as much, just hoped there might be a more positive outlook.

            Mate that would be a lifesaver. I'm going to get my ecu tuned to help improve towing and touring performance I've really struggled with the towing ability but in essence the car is doing pretty well. I've learned to love her and protect her a bit more throughout the trip. We both have a nasty hill to climb tomorrow which will be interesting. Low range 2nd and 3rd will get us there.

            Any suggestions to add to the performance or ability? Plan at the moment is

            Ecu tune asap
            ? Exhaust to match (not sure it's necessary)
            this is only for the egts to keep them under control for the heat no power improvements from it
            Torque converter lockup kit
            helps but still is a harsh on the gear changes and i find it raises the egts alot and you have to watch them as well and the fuel usage is still pretty crappy towing a 2T van
            New tyres and keep her serviced as always.
            replys in blue
            Mate i have every thing you want to do and it still isnt the best uses fuel when towing with the lock up kit on im running 32"tyres 3" exhaust remapped ecu running 25psi boost and im still not happy with it regulat service (every 5000kms oil & filter changed)
            My10 PB XLS ,Opposite lock 3 hoop black bullbar ,HID XRAY200MM Spotlights ,Uniden UHF radio,EGR off,Rear cargo barrier,Turbo Replacment and only 45K,265/70 trail climbers, 26 psi boost and 3" full turbo back custom install exhaust ,hid 35 watt driving low beam,Custom day LED running lights,dual battery kit and wiring ,105amp hour battery , 50 AMP anderson plug front and back ,raised 2" Electric Brake controller.
            New Custom Ultimate diesel tuning REMAP,custom rail limiter.

            Comment

            • old Jack
              Regular
              • Jun 2011
              • 11521
              • Adelaide, South Australia.

              #7
              Hopefully the “Auto Mate” will overcome the shortcomings of the WA Gen 2 lockup kit.



              OJ.
              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

              Comment

              • BMChallenger
                Member
                • Jun 2012
                • 211
                • Sunshine Coast, QLD

                #8
                Originally posted by coughy View Post
                replys in blue
                Mate i have every thing you want to do and it still isnt the best uses fuel when towing with the lock up kit on im running 32"tyres 3" exhaust remapped ecu running 25psi boost and im still not happy with it regulat service (every 5000kms oil & filter changed)
                Mmmmm not positive haha

                I would upgrade tomorrow but financially just isn't possible bought my lovely wife an Audi Q7 not long ago (not for towing duties) so I have a couple more years with the challenger I'm just trying to keep her going for a while longer argh

                I'll do the ecu and see how she travels
                2011 PB Challenger LS 5 seat charcoal grey - ARB bull bar, gme uhf, bushskinz underbody plates, ultimate HD 50mm lift, redarc tow pro, haymen reese tow bar, rhino rack platform, bridgestone d697 a/t tyres, custom built off-road tandem axle caravan!

                Comment

                • coughy
                  Valued Member
                  • May 2014
                  • 589
                  • Redlands Brisbane QLD

                  #9
                  this is what im looking at next

                  Step-by-step installation of a automatic torque converter lockup kit into a Toyota Land Cruiser 200.Read the full article at: https://www.project200.com.au/t...


                  but if you have something in the pipe lines i will wait
                  i can even test for you to m8
                  My10 PB XLS ,Opposite lock 3 hoop black bullbar ,HID XRAY200MM Spotlights ,Uniden UHF radio,EGR off,Rear cargo barrier,Turbo Replacment and only 45K,265/70 trail climbers, 26 psi boost and 3" full turbo back custom install exhaust ,hid 35 watt driving low beam,Custom day LED running lights,dual battery kit and wiring ,105amp hour battery , 50 AMP anderson plug front and back ,raised 2" Electric Brake controller.
                  New Custom Ultimate diesel tuning REMAP,custom rail limiter.

                  Comment

                  • BMChallenger
                    Member
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 211
                    • Sunshine Coast, QLD

                    #10
                    Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                    Hopefully the “Auto Mate” will overcome the shortcomings of the WA Gen 2 lockup kit.



                    OJ.
                    So is this only available for the Pajero at this stage?
                    2011 PB Challenger LS 5 seat charcoal grey - ARB bull bar, gme uhf, bushskinz underbody plates, ultimate HD 50mm lift, redarc tow pro, haymen reese tow bar, rhino rack platform, bridgestone d697 a/t tyres, custom built off-road tandem axle caravan!

                    Comment

                    • coughy
                      Valued Member
                      • May 2014
                      • 589
                      • Redlands Brisbane QLD

                      #11
                      Originally posted by BMChallenger View Post
                      Mmmmm not positive haha

                      I would upgrade tomorrow but financially just isn't possible bought my lovely wife an Audi Q7 not long ago (not for towing duties) so I have a couple more years with the challenger I'm just trying to keep her going for a while longer argh

                      I'll do the ecu and see how she travels
                      yer the ecu remap is good but i dont see the figures they sprooked to me with the savings of fuel
                      i use 60ish litres around town stop start driving 60kmph and only get 400km so yer it is crap
                      and the high way about 550ish doing 100kph so yer still not happy with the fuel usage then ad a van it gets worse and u feel like you filling up every god dam servo on a trip

                      so yer oj lets do this kit m8 alot of challengers will love it
                      My10 PB XLS ,Opposite lock 3 hoop black bullbar ,HID XRAY200MM Spotlights ,Uniden UHF radio,EGR off,Rear cargo barrier,Turbo Replacment and only 45K,265/70 trail climbers, 26 psi boost and 3" full turbo back custom install exhaust ,hid 35 watt driving low beam,Custom day LED running lights,dual battery kit and wiring ,105amp hour battery , 50 AMP anderson plug front and back ,raised 2" Electric Brake controller.
                      New Custom Ultimate diesel tuning REMAP,custom rail limiter.

                      Comment

                      • BMChallenger
                        Member
                        • Jun 2012
                        • 211
                        • Sunshine Coast, QLD

                        #12
                        Originally posted by coughy View Post
                        yer the ecu remap is good but i dont see the figures they sprooked to me with the savings of fuel
                        i use 60ish litres around town stop start driving 60kmph and only get 400km so yer it is crap
                        and the high way about 550ish doing 100kph so yer still not happy with the fuel usage then ad a van it gets worse and u feel like you filling up every god dam servo on a trip

                        so yer oj lets do this kit m8 alot of challengers will love it
                        No tune I get 500km around town and 350 towing. I'm not getting too worried about fuel with the tune just better driveavikity and performance from the little diesel.
                        2011 PB Challenger LS 5 seat charcoal grey - ARB bull bar, gme uhf, bushskinz underbody plates, ultimate HD 50mm lift, redarc tow pro, haymen reese tow bar, rhino rack platform, bridgestone d697 a/t tyres, custom built off-road tandem axle caravan!

                        Comment

                        • m_and_m
                          Valued Member
                          • Mar 2010
                          • 1810
                          • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                          #13
                          lockup-mate

                          Thanks for the plug OJ

                          The Pajero version is 99.9% complete now, and will ship commencing the week after next.

                          Yes, I fully intend to release a version of lockup-mate for the PB/PC challenger, with OJ's car as the test mule.

                          I've already made some accomodations in the hardware in preparation for supporting the JATCO transmission. So with luck it will be mainly software changes and tuning the decision algorithm . If all goes smoothly this will bring forward the challenger release well prior to mid year. The NS Pajero too.

                          Interesting that this thread reaffirms the benefit of the lockup-kit even when not towing. Just driving around town on a hot day using D can see my temps climb over 100degC.
                          Last year in the vic high country I needed to stop several times to let the trans cool down after hitting temps close to 130 degC during long climbs. There wasn't anything already available that met my needs - so it was this issue that spurred me on to design a lockup kit which was better than anything else around.

                          It also takes ages to get the heat out due to limited airflow - the best solution is to stop the heat buildup in the first place - hence the lockup-kit as the solution.

                          If you visit my web site you can subscribe and receive emails to keep up-to-date as my new products are ready. http://www.mm4x4.com.au

                          Here's the original thread on lockup-mate.
                          2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                          2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                          Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                          Comment

                          • littleriver
                            Valued Member
                            • Jan 2013
                            • 3339
                            • Queensland

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BMChallenger View Post
                            No tune I get 500km around town and 350 towing. I'm not getting too worried about fuel with the tune just better driveavikity and performance from the little diesel.

                            should have gone the Roosystems Tune ....

                            10L/100km on average ... 8L/100km highway ...



                            can lead a horse to water ...

                            114kw 375 Nm at the wheels ...



                            ...
                            Last edited by littleriver; 02-01-18, 11:59 PM.
                            2012 PB Challenger LS (Manual) Safari Snorkel, OZtec shocks front & rear with King Springs (lift 2 inch) , 22 inch light bar on ECB Nudge bar, roof racks & basket, Bridgestone Duelers 697 LT A/T (116S), Uniden Dash cam, Oricom 2 way radio 80 channel, Ipod connected via glove box usb, Waeco cf50, Garmin gps (with topo), Opticoat + paint protection, Nilrust proofing, Roosystems Ecu Remap

                            Comment

                            • old Jack
                              Regular
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 11521
                              • Adelaide, South Australia.

                              #15
                              Originally posted by littleriver View Post
                              should have gone the Roosystems Tune ....

                              10L/100km on average ... 8L/100km highway ...



                              can lead a horse to water ...

                              114kw 375 Nm at the wheels ...



                              ...
                              I doubt with a remap or chip of any brand you would get those sort of fuel consumption figures from an auto trans Challenger, the combination of the high slip torque converter, high diff ratios and poor AT ECU programing cannot be overcome by an engine ECU mod.

                              OJ.
                              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                              Comment

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