Any gas plumbers on the forum?

[Quinno]

Bloody confused, apologies for the long read. I have seen many references online to propane regulators being 37mbar and butane regulators 28mbar, and also many references to 30mbar regulators which some say can use either gas or a blend. Today I open my new gas hot water for my camper trailer, who's instructions say propane only and only with the enclosed regulator. Yet the enclosed regulator is a 28mbar butane regulator, not a 37mbar propane regulator. There are also many people who claim to have been using either gas through the lesser 28mbar regulator for many years. I appreciate in my reading that natural gas (methane) requires the appliance to have different jets, but for LPG appliances I think the same jets are used and the key is getting delivery of the gas right so that it doesn't burn too hot, or vice versa get partial combustion and have byproduct of too much carbon monoxide. Now - Let me explain what I would like to do. Simply, a car LPG tank filled from service station to a regulator to gas BBQ and hot water unit. I have also seen many references online, particularly from tanker drivers delivering gas, that in some locations the gas for car and the gas for bottle refills is the same. This is more so the case further from capital cities where propane is delivered and used in both cars and gas appliances, whereas close to cities they deliver two trucks. One with propane for gas appliance bottle refills and second truck for gas blend used in cars. I am beginning to believe it is technically feasible to use propane or propane/butane blend from a car LPG tank filled at service station. Due to confusion, I believe that most (all?) Europe has abolished the 28 and 37mbar regulators and the standard is now 30mbar for universal application (unless methane). Locally, energy safe Victoria also recommend 30mbar for installation on yacht's. This is to cater for variability trans-continental when you cannot guarantee if you will receive propane or a blend of propane / butane on different shorelines. Based on this, I believe I should be able to use a car LPG tank to a 30mbar regulator providing the pipes run uphill to the regulator and the outlet pressure from the tank is not too high for the 30mbr regulator, which can be managed with a pressure reducer if required.

[erad]

My main concern would be the mounting of your car type tank. Normally they are mounted in a cradle whereas the BBQ bottles stand upright. Not a big drama, but you would have to be able to mount the bottle(s) and fill it(them) in a manner similar to that used on a car. Unless you have a tank already (and the necessary regulator) I suggest that it may be just as cheap to use normal refillable gas bottles and pay the extra price.

[Quinno]

Erad, I should mention I have a 17L tank, hoses and filler nozzle ready to install. Should be able to stop at servo and connect.

[Tmnd16]

You are asking for trouble realistically no matter what your told autogas is different than lpg no ifs or buts about it.

[gemster]

X 2... Gas is a silent, hidden Danger/Killer not to be played with IMO...... If servo's knew what you were filling, they would more than likely have something to say about that one too.... Simular to jerry cans... Must be filled in an 'approved for use' Container...

Gemster....

[rykiel575]

Years ago when i had a dual fuel falcon i would go to a specific UNIGAS outlet for lpg, reason being it was straight 100% propane and not a blend of propane/butane which is what auto gas LPG normally is. At the time i emailed unigas and they confirmed their outlets in Sydney were 100% propane.

Maybe see if they have a unigas where you are and email them to see what blend they use.

[stumagoo]

years ago (10 or so) I was a registered gas fitter/plumber in NZ - short answer yes you can decant the gas from a vehicle into a bbq bottle - yes you could hook up a pipe and have a bbq fed off the gas tank itself - yes the gas is different but not so that either reg would work adequately as would the jets in the appliance



and yes you have a very good chance of something going BOOM if its has a leak on one of the valves or even with a reg venting (they do this BTW)



Personally I have not fitted my BBQ with a permanent connection in my wagon -I have to disconnect it from the bottle every time the drawer it is in slides away - I would never recommend modifying the cars LPG setup and would not do it even if it was my own.

[disco stu]

But is any of that any different to what there is currently in the van Stu? Just thinking the same dangers of what you mentioned still exist don't they

You will run into issues when filling at a service station-they won't let you fill a non car fuel source tank with the pump lpg-whether they are the same or not. As to that argument, I've seen both sides of the argument adamant that they are either completely different, or 100% the same. Some of these guys have claimed they worked at service stations and saw the same truck filling both the BBQ tank as well the car lpg tank. I'm intrigued enough to want to throw a sample of each through a gas chromatograph, but mine is currently getting fixed...... Personally, I imagine it would be similar to petrol-a mix of a lot of different stuff. I'm struggling to see why a burner type appliance would be more picky on the proportions of different gasses as compared to an engine, but happy to be shown

[stumagoo]

I was out over the weekend - I had my bbq out and let others use it, no problem with that I am happy to. I had 3 times where people had thought they had turned it off but actually turned it right down to low (very hard to see the flame at that point) if this was done in my vehicle with a continuous gas supply and I closed it up without looking then carbon monoxide poisoning is very possible (this gas is one of the results if LPG combustion in a bbq) especially when I close up and climb in for a sleep. - This is why most campers should now days be fitted with gas detectors (I dont know if its a requirement here but it should be)

Its my over cautious nature but gas is nasty as it creeps up and can be easily missed if one is not watching for it.

The bonus of course is that auto Gas systems should have a valve that detects sudden pressure drops (broken lines etc) so there is also added security for your bbq gas supply that is not present on campers and regular BBQ setups

[disco stu]

I get what you're saying now, its the permanent connection that's the issue

[stumagoo]

yeah it scares the crap out of me that I may climb in one night sloshed and gas myself. After all some of those sessions around the old campfire involve some serious amounts of alcohol