Oztec/Kings versus Dobinson Suspension

[littleriver]

My Trade pricing on King Coils ranges from $145 to $185 per pair depending on what coil it is. Normal retail/online pricing is $180 to $260 a set and also online pricing may have freight extra!



OJ.

Found a full set 30mm lift on special fleabay $299.20 delivered
.
KCFR - 55
KCRS - 23

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MITSUBISHI-CHALLENGER-PB-F-R-30mm-RAISED-COIL-SPRINGS/391288847562?epid=1290181034&hash=item5b1aa1fcca:g:ScUAAOSw4A5YnV7P

...

[ilikeachallenge]

Hi Chris 1972
I’ve been running the oztec/kings combo for nearly 4 months now and am more than happy with the ride and handling both on and off road.I do some pretty hard steep off road work and also tow a wood trailer and camper at different times.My setup is heavier than yours so maybe you will require different spring rates but I think you will you be happy with the result if you choose to go this way.
I see your up Ballarat way but I got great advice and service at Can Do 4x4 in Lilydale.Talk to Jacky

[colmat]

Suspension Lift options for me too!!

Hi, I'm also looking for suspension lift upgrade for my challenger and looking for assistance on best options available.

Current set-up...….
* 2012 LS Auto
* Factory alloy bar and tow bar
* Single Kings drawer in rear (drivers side)
* 2nd agm battery located between drawer and rear seats
* 265/65/R17 AT light truck tyres
* EBH = 535mm for both front and rear (yes all 4 corners the same)
* No heavy towing, just occasional box trailer for handyman stuff
* Mainly used as family daily drive with occasional offroad trips

Looking to increase the height up to 50mm above original EBH as per NSW regulation limits, just because I like look of lifted Challenger but hopefully new suspension could also improve general handling and off-road performance above standard. Would love to go bigger tyres too but conscious of comments about effect on auto.

Cheers

[Chris1972]

Thanx for all the advice guys. I’ve gone with the OzTec/Kings combo, and its getting fitted this Friday. Looking forward to a big improvement. ��

[old Jack]

Hi, I'm also looking for suspension lift upgrade for my challenger and looking for assistance on best options available.

Current set-up...….
* 2012 LS Auto
* Factory alloy bar and tow bar
* Single Kings drawer in rear (drivers side)
* 2nd agm battery located between drawer and rear seats
* 265/65/R17 AT light truck tyres
* EBH = 535mm for both front and rear (yes all 4 corners the same)
* No heavy towing, just occasional box trailer for handyman stuff
* Mainly used as family daily drive with occasional offroad trips

Looking to increase the height up to 50mm above original EBH as per NSW regulation limits, just because I like look of lifted Challenger but hopefully new suspension could also improve general handling and off-road performance above standard. Would love to go bigger tyres too but conscious of comments about effect on auto.

Cheers

Hi Colmat,

Max lift height is Front 570mm front as you need to retain 2/3's of the original droop travel to stay legal. Go higher than this and you have lost too much droop travel so you will get more unwanted traction control and stability control activations.

Max lift height for the rear is 595mm with an Auto and even then you can still get a small amount of driveline vibration at 35kph to 45kph, this can be reduced by fitting offset trailing arm bushes but this does add to the cost of the upgrade.
Factory ride heights are Front 542mm+/-20mm and Rear 552mm +/-20mm, so there is a standard rake angle of 10mm (difference between front and rear ride heights, from my experience the Challenger can tolerate up to 30mm difference before you notice any handling problems.

Without knowing your exact axle weights it is difficult to give you a recommendation on which particular coils to use but the King/Oztec combination is a reasonably priced recreational suspension upgrade. If you travel heavy, tow heavy or do a lot of extended off the bitumen touring at GVM+weights then you need to be particularly careful with both coil and shocker/strut selection. If you weigh your front and rear axle weights I can assist with some more detailed information. What ever coils you fit I strongly recommend replacing the rubber cone spring assists with the Peddars/Aeon 5899 cones as these provide a greater level of spring assist in deep compression and activate earlier in the compression travel, dozens of owners have fitted these and I have not heard of a single complaint about there performance.

Larger diameter tyres and the Auto trans, yes I too would like to go up a tyre diameter and have been worried about the effect on the Auto but now having had Auto Mate fitted for 6 months and 14,000kms I am up sizing the tyre diameter in the next few months when I get new tyres.


OJ.

[twisted32]

Larger diameter tyres and the Auto trans, yes I too would like to go up a tyre diameter and have been worried about the effect on the Auto but now having had Auto Mate fitted for 6 months and 14,000kms I am up sizing the tyre diameter in the next few months when I get new tyres.


OJ.

Never thought I would see the day

[littleriver]

Never thought I would see the day

X2 ...

Maybe there will be an insight into the OJ tyre wisdom... I am eagerly waiting on his next tyre choice...

Could there be an upsize of rim also ???

....

[nj swb]

Could there be an upsize of rim also ???

....

If I were a betting man, I would bet not.

[old Jack]

Ha Njswb, knows me too well!

Tyre size will change from a the standard diameter LT245/75R-16 which I have run since new instead of P265/70R-16 factory tyre to LT235/85R-16 which is 10mm narrower but 30mm larger in diameter. No secret to those who know me well, that I have always wanted this size tyre and are a narrow tyre person rather than a wide tyre person. I have been frustrated by the auto trans programing, high slip torque convertor and high diff ratios, Auto- Mate has offset all of these issues so I am comfortable to make the change. Of course I will run these on the standard alloy rims as I see no need to change (waste money for sheer vanity).

If I am unhappy with the loss of performance I will either just live with it or change back tyre size or get a tune or change diff ratios. Challenger is less than 20,000km away from being out of the 160,000km/10 year engine and drive line warranty so warranty is less of a concern.

Also after the last very unsatisfactory service from MM Dealer Service Department (3rd Dealer in Adelaide I have not been happy with) I will either service myself or find some who will do it correctly.

OJ.

[russ1]

Ha Njswb, knows me too well!

Tyre size will change from a the standard diameter LT245/75R-16 which I have run since new instead of P265/70R-16 factory tyre to LT235/85R-16 which is 10mm narrower but 30mm larger in diameter. No secret to those who know me well, that I have always wanted this size tyre and are a narrow tyre person rather than a wide tyre person. I have been frustrated by the auto trans programing, high slip torque convertor and high diff ratios, Auto- Mate has offset all of these issues so I am comfortable to make the change. Of course I will run these on the standard alloy rims as I see no need to change (waste money for sheer vanity).

If I am unhappy with the loss of performance I will either just live with it or change back tyre size or get a tune or change diff ratios. Challenger is less than 20,000km away from being out of the 160,000km/10 year engine and drive line warranty so warranty is less of a concern.

Also after the last very unsatisfactory service from MM Dealer Service Department (3rd Dealer in Adelaide I have not been happy with) I will either service myself or find some who will do it correctly.

OJ.

Hello OJ, let me know if/when you find a reliable dealer in town. I now drive 3 hrs to Pt Pirie for servicing (they were extremely helpful when the motor went last year on a trip). I am well and truly over MM dealers, particularly the one in the southern suburbs, absolute amateurs. cant beat country hospitality and care. cheers

[colmat]

Hi Colmat,

Max lift height is Front 570mm front as you need to retain 2/3's of the original droop travel to stay legal. Go higher than this and you have lost too much droop travel so you will get more unwanted traction control and stability control activations.

Max lift height for the rear is 595mm with an Auto and even then you can still get a small amount of driveline vibration at 35kph to 45kph, this can be reduced by fitting offset trailing arm bushes but this does add to the cost of the upgrade.
Factory ride heights are Front 542mm+/-20mm and Rear 552mm +/-20mm, so there is a standard rake angle of 10mm (difference between front and rear ride heights, from my experience the Challenger can tolerate up to 30mm difference before you notice any handling problems.

Without knowing your exact axle weights it is difficult to give you a recommendation on which particular coils to use but the King/Oztec combination is a reasonably priced recreational suspension upgrade. If you travel heavy, tow heavy or do a lot of extended off the bitumen touring at GVM+weights then you need to be particularly careful with both coil and shocker/strut selection. If you weigh your front and rear axle weights I can assist with some more detailed information. What ever coils you fit I strongly recommend replacing the rubber cone spring assists with the Peddars/Aeon 5899 cones as these provide a greater level of spring assist in deep compression and activate earlier in the compression travel, dozens of owners have fitted these and I have not heard of a single complaint about there performance.

Larger diameter tyres and the Auto trans, yes I too would like to go up a tyre diameter and have been worried about the effect on the Auto but now having had Auto Mate fitted for 6 months and 14,000kms I am up sizing the tyre diameter in the next few months when I get new tyres.


OJ.

Thanks OJ your knowledge and expertise appreciated as always!!

Went to weight bridge and got the following readings with full tank of fuel and driver only.
Front = 1180kg with EBH = 532mm
Rear 1140kg with EBH = 527mm
Total 2320kg

As mentioned I have factory alloy bull bar up front, factory tow bar on rear, plus single drawer unit (steel) and 100Ah battery mounted in rear.

No caravan towing for me, just occasional box trailer usage. When we travel its just a couple of extra passengers and luggage to be throw in (we camp in motels).

Would like to try and lift the ole girl up to the safe limits you suggest (approx. F=570mm, R=585mm???). 90% of time will be spent as daily drive on bitumen so want to maintain on-road comfort but hopefully still gain offroad ability when required...…..yes I want it all!!

Would appreciate any suggestions on spring/shock combo suitable for my needs. Cheers

[old Jack]

Thanks OJ your knowledge and expertise appreciated as always!!

Went to weight bridge and got the following readings with full tank of fuel and driver only.
Front = 1180kg with EBH = 532mm
Rear 1140kg with EBH = 527mm
Total 2320kg

As mentioned I have factory alloy bull bar up front, factory tow bar on rear, plus single drawer unit (steel) and 100Ah battery mounted in rear.

No caravan towing for me, just occasional box trailer usage. When we travel its just a couple of extra passengers and luggage to be throw in (we camp in motels).

Would like to try and lift the ole girl up to the safe limits you suggest (approx. F=570mm, R=585mm???). 90% of time will be spent as daily drive on bitumen so want to maintain on-road comfort but hopefully still gain offroad ability when required...…..yes I want it all!!

Would appreciate any suggestions on spring/shock combo suitable for my needs. Cheers

Best calculated guesstimate and based on feedback from others I would suggest;

Front suspension; King KCFR-55 if you want a firmer ride or KCFR-55T is you want a softer ride than the factory suspension, both coils will give the front a lift.

Rear suspension; KCRR-23 on the rear since you have some fixed weight in the rear cargo area but are not towing with a heavy towball loads. Fitting Peddars 5899 at the same time is highly recommended.

Choice of struts and shockers is up to you but the multiple feedback I have had from the King/OzTec combination is everyone is happy with this both on road and in light to medium duty off road situations and is good value for the money and good warranty.

GSA in Qld should be able to give you a competitive price for pre-assembled front struts and coils + rear coils. Speak to Steve and tell him you are from the Pajero Forum and OJ from SA referred you to him.

A visit to Peddars for the 5899 cones, retail for about $125 a pair, (trade is $90-$100 depending on which Peddars you buy from).

Fitting the suspension is about 3-4 hours work for a trained mechanic that knows what they are doing but if attempting it yourself allow 5 to 7 hours depending on your experience and what tools you have. I would not recommend fitting your own suspension unless you are an experienced "home mechanic" with reasonable tools and some suspension experience. If you go down this path then I can email you the tricks of the trade and the traps to be aware of.


OJ.

[colmat]

Best calculated guesstimate and based on feedback from others I would suggest;

Front suspension; King KCFR-55 if you want a firmer ride or KCFR-55T is you want a softer ride than the factory suspension, both coils will give the front a lift.

Rear suspension; KCRR-23 on the rear since you have some fixed weight in the rear cargo area but are not towing with a heavy towball loads. Fitting Peddars 5899 at the same time is highly recommended.

Choice of struts and shockers is up to you but the multiple feedback I have had from the King/OzTec combination is everyone is happy with this both on road and in light to medium duty off road situations and is good value for the money and good warranty.

GSA in Qld should be able to give you a competitive price for pre-assembled front struts and coils + rear coils. Speak to Steve and tell him you are from the Pajero Forum and OJ from SA referred you to him.

A visit to Peddars for the 5899 cones, retail for about $125 a pair, (trade is $90-$100 depending on which Peddars you buy from).

Fitting the suspension is about 3-4 hours work for a trained mechanic that knows what they are doing but if attempting it yourself allow 5 to 7 hours depending on your experience and what tools you have. I would not recommend fitting your own suspension unless you are an experienced "home mechanic" with reasonable tools and some suspension experience. If you go down this path then I can email you the tricks of the trade and the traps to be aware of.


OJ.

Awesome thanks OJ,

I understand the KCFR-55T is progressive rate spring to provide more comfort but does it achieve the same lift as the KCFR-55 or is it less due to the initial "soft" phase of spring.

Also, is it worth considering the KCRR-23HD for the rears or would they be too firm? I'm just wondering with 1140kg over rear axle as a base load, whether any lift would be negated when adding a couple of passengers/luggage or towing a loaded box trailer?? I thought I read one of your previous forum posts that said the KCRR-23 would only achieve approx. factory EBH height with my rear axle weight?? Can't find the post now though.....grrrr!

Cheers mate

[old Jack]

Awesome thanks OJ,

I understand the KCFR-55T is progressive rate spring to provide more comfort but does it achieve the same lift as the KCFR-55 or is it less due to the initial "soft" phase of spring.

Also, is it worth considering the KCRR-23HD for the rears or would they be too firm? I'm just wondering with 1140kg over rear axle as a base load, whether any lift would be negated when adding a couple of passengers/luggage or towing a loaded box trailer?? I thought I read one of your previous forum posts that said the KCRR-23 would only achieve approx. factory EBH height with my rear axle weight?? Can't find the post now though.....grrrr!

Cheers mate

The KCFR-55T will give you a similar lift to the KCFR-55 with your light front axle weights,I have driven "Chillipepperz's" Challenger fitted with these coils and Bilsten struts and the ride is noticeably more comfortable, softer and a little more body roll than the factory coils and from memory of the KCFR-55 which I have not driven on for several years. Multiple forum members have both coils fitted so maybe you can get some feedback from them.

I think the KCRR-23HD would be too heavy a spring rate and too high a EBH for you unless you carry an extra 100kg or so in the rear cargo area all the time. You have not said what the rear passenger weights are or the weight of luggage that you carry when "motel camping" and since you are not towing a camper trailer or caravan then this is why I choose the KCRR-23 over the KCRR-23HD.

OJ.

[Giddyup]

Sad that there are more MRR failures, only hoping my Dobinson MT do not suffer an early demise as my Bilstein/Lovells combination had 3 front strut failures in 90,000km.

Spring Data;

C43-043V Free Length 400mm Spring Rate 3.059 to 5.812 kg/mm.
C43-045V Free Length 410mm Spring Rate 4.079 to 6.628 kg/mm.

KCRS-23 Free Length 375mm Spring Rate 3.038 to 4.018 kg/mm.
KCRR-23 Free Length 395mm Spring Rate 3.038 to 4.018 kg/mm.
KCRR-23HD Free Length 395mm Spring Rate 3.661 to 5.179 kg/mm.


OJ.

Hi OJ,

Not sure where you got the spring info from but not sure it's correct.

Attached is a comparison of c43-043v and kcrr-23. It's the same spring. Number of free coils, wire diam, height etc.