5th Place in Overlander 4wd of the Year - Bias?

[frogfuzz]

Hi All

New to the website - so I am not sure if this is the place for this post.

Just bought and read the Overlander 4wd Mag Dec 2011 to have a look at their 4wd of the year article. After reading it and watching the video I can't help but think this mag is no better than 4wd Monthly in that, IMHO, it is a marketing arm of Toyota.


4 out of the 8 judges drive Toyota's.

During the testing on the video I noticed the following:
1) On the sand hill climb the Pajero did it without fuss first time, after the track had been churned up a bit. The Prado got bogged. Apparently due to driver error?
2) On the suspension test the Prado cocked a wheel up. The Pajero surprised all keeping all four on the ground - as admitted on the vid.
3) They compared "value" of the Paj VRX against a GLX Prado. Why not compare the GLX Paj against the GLX Prado - keeping the comparison the same? Maybe they didn't want to highlight the $8-10K price difference (well thats what it was when I bought my NT in 2010)


Despite the above they ranked the Paj way less than the Prado??? Maybe I am biased as I own a Paj, but they give the Prado 4 stars for 4wd ability, the Paj only got 3? If the Prado is so much better why did it need two attemps to cross a simple sand dune? If it is so much better, why did its suspension not hold all four wheels on the ground as the Paj did? To blame driver error is a cop out as all modern vehicles are near idiot proof with their electronic gizmos.


They completely bagged the Jeep - yet interestingly in the video it was the Jeep owner who praised the ability of the Pajero off road. I also wondered why they did not have any Jeep Rubicon's in the test. They retail around the same price as the FJ Cruiser, same target market. I see more of the Jeep's on the road up here than I do the FJ's. So why not include this vehicle in the test also? Or would the Jeep Rubicon show up the FJ, which would not be good as Jeep Rubicon is the FJ's main competitor?


The other thing that surprised me is that they only gave the Defender 2.5 stars out of five for offroad ability?? I've seen these things (in stock form) eat up the worst of Nagala rocks on Fraser Island when other makes struggled.


What do other people think? Am I biased or has the magazine been influenced too much by it's "sponsors"?

[David Anderson]

The other thing that surprised me is that they only gave the Defender 2.5 stars out of five for offroad ability?? I've seen these things (in stock form) eat up the worst of Nagala rocks on Fraser Island when other makes struggled.

That is a bit silly.

[psproule]

Well, Overlander is now owned and staffed by the same mob who produce 4WD Neanderthal (think green rust-bucket 40 series Landcruiser).

[Aussie_Dan]

4WD Neanderthal

Hahahahaha, I like it Pat.
Anyway, take those magazine reviews with a grain of salt.... It does seem that they are always biased.
I read a review between an NT Paj and a Prado one day where they bagged the Paj for being too tail happy stating that the Prado was better on fast dirt roads because it was constant 4WD..... Retards. They obviously had no idea that the Paj can also be a constant 4WD at a flick of the transfer lever.
And I agree with you too Frogfuzz. It just doesn't seem credible when they give the defender '2.5 stars' and then neglect to throw a Rubicon into the mix to give the FJ a touch up.
Give me the Jeep over a FJ Cruiser ugly heap of crap any day!
Dan.

[Pickle]

t just doesn't seem credible when they give the defender '2.5 stars' and then neglect to throw a Rubicon into the mix to give the FJ a touch up.
Give me the Jeep over a FJ Cruiser ugly heap of crap any day!
Dan.

We had a Wrangler as a back up for film crew etc, that went pretty good
Of course you guys realise that we are at the mercy of what the manufacturer throws the testers way. The Prado was supposed to be the D4D.
By the way the Disco 4 was my pick over the 200. Only on price mind you as both are fantastic wagons. Now if Land Rover was supposed to sway my opinion their way can you ask them where the dollars/ free car is as I haven't received anything yet and it's been a couple of months
Dave

[Thomo238]

Even before I opened the Mag I knew the result. I guess if they put the price of the car as a point to make be a different story. I got my RX 15k cheaper that the same Prado and when you think of the cost of a 200 series. Thats allot of off road goodies I can bolt to my Pajero fo rthe same cost of a stock Toyota which I have done and I have a very capable off road touring 4x4 which will take my further than a stock Toyota.

But unfortunatly the experts they use have a bias in them before they even get to testing the cars. But as Paj owners they can have the trophies and the glory we know we drive very good 4wd's and dont have to make a noise about it, just sit back and quietly laugh to ourselves at the amount of money these monkeys have shelled out for Toyota that does the same and in some cases less than a Pajero...Love That Car!!

[hinsch]

I regularly hire a Prado for long hauls and must agree with some of the findings here the I would go the Prado much quieter tends to sit on the road a bit better HOWEVER is it worth the extra $$$$$$$ and there is a few of these, you pay for the T on the front.

I will stick with the NP it does all I need with little or no fuss

[psproule]

Have a look in the Other Makes forum for a good write up and pics of Dave's time on the 4WDOTY trip.

[tim51]

I regularly hire a Prado for long hauls and must agree with some of the findings here the I would go the Prado much quieter tends to sit on the road a bit better HOWEVER is it worth the extra $$$$$$$ and there is a few of these, you pay for the T on the front.

I will stick with the NP it does all I need with little or no fuss

hinsch,

You would be hiring the latest model Prado and comparing it to your 7/8 year old NP.

Try hiring a new NW next time, the difference between it and your NP is like comparing chalk with cheese.

Tim.

[onallfour]

and they keep fussing about the V8 in the cruiser but the Jeep and Discovery has almost the same power out of a V6 diesel.
BTW i have a nissan patrol diesel for work and i think the pajero should be nowhere near the patrol in its placing. The patrol is a pig at 118kw and is 10 years behind anything else there (apart from the land rover i know)

[frogfuzz]

Pity about the mag - I started buying it early last year when I got sick of the bias in the other mags. I enjoyed the reviews OL had on all types of 4wd's - even the soft roaders. I also enjoyed "window shopping" the price lists in the back of the mag.


As for the 4wd OTY - yes I realise that OL runs with whatever the manufacturer gives them. But why can't the mag make use of 4wd clubs to widen the field of vehicles being tested? How can they proclaim “4wd OTY” without testing nearly all of the contenders?

I also wonder about how statistical the point scoring system is. What weighting do they give for price verses functionality? I mean to compare a $70k Paj with a $100k LC200; well - for an extra $30k you'd expect the LC200 to be better (if I spent an extra $30k on my 4wd I’d expect it to walk on water!) Bit of a no brainer really. Whack $30k of mods onto any ‘average’ priced 4wd and it would probably leave the LC200 in its wake. So is an extra $30k really worth it? Hence the argument for the Disco (but I’d love to see a section in the criteria which could access RACQ/V/ NRMA stats on breakdowns per make of vehicle also) .


If price had a heavier weighting per point than 4wd ability / functionality per point - then what would the scores look like then? Having some sort of weighted average where some things count for more than others would probably iron out some of the bias (then again - maybe not), especially if they published each category score per vehicle so then all could see?? If two different manufactures can produce 4wds capable of traversing the same terrain, one can do it for $50k and one for $100k; both in relative comfort – then surely the $50k vehicle would have to score higher in that particular section?


Last year they had groupings - and this was a good idea (eg "best ute" ; "best value family 4wd" etc). At least doing it this way was closer to comparing apples with apples.


Allonfour - I agree; while I'm sure the V8 diesel in the LC200 is sweet; other engines of smaller capacity (but not too small) also produce similar outputs. I was debating this point recently with a mate of mine who was eyeing off the Toyota 70 series LC; I pointed out to him that the V8 in these things was basically obsolete (different to the LC200 block) - but you still pay through the nose for it. In fact I think the Paj 3.2 produces figures almost as good as the LC 70 - all with 4cyl (correct me if I am wrong - I learnt that from 'window shopping' and reading the stats in the back of OL when they uesed to publish such readable material). Anyway - horses for courses; I think he wants the "T" badge more than anything else.


It was good to see a Paj section from the Vic Club in the back – I enjoyed reading that and not because I am biased. It was something different to the “Toyota! Toyota! Coopers! Coopers!” Even when I turn on TV and watch Great Southeast its all the same now – paid for by the ‘sponsors’.

Does anyone know of a good 4wd mag? Or was OL the last of them?

[chilli]

Does anyone know of a good 4wd mag? Or was OL the last of them?

Try Pat Callinan's 4x4 Adventure magazine. It is a new magazine that hit the shelf late this year and is only published quarterly (4 mags a year).

[Nater]

Try Pat Callinan's 4x4 Adventure magazine. It is a new magazine that hit the shelf late this year and is only published quarterly (4 mags a year).

We're off the original topic here but I agree with Chilli. Pats magazine is a high quality informative read and I'll certainly be purchasing volume 2 when released.

Craig

[DiDExceed]

i spoke to my brother the other day and he was talking about buying a defender 110 dual cab, some limited edition thing at, wait for it - $60k

You could have almost two similarly equipped tritons (ie pretty much base model) for that price, ill admit i used to love range rovers and discos but defenders i cant stand

i could get an extreamly low km nt exceed too, oh well horses for courses, but to be honest if the budget had of stretched toa td grande prado when we bought the np, the paj would not have even been considered, seeing as though i didnt want a paj at all but the good wife dragged me along to look at one or two, drove them and loved it, especially for 10k less than the equivelant prado.

"love that car"

[Stevie-Ray]

Try Pat Callinan's 4x4 Adventure magazine. It is a new magazine that hit the shelf late this year and is only published quarterly (4 mags a year).

Haven't looked at the mag yet, but the TV show is predominantly an advertising-vehicle for ARB & it's products! That's not to say it isn't interesting & informative on places & things 4WDrive!
At least Pat doesn't drive another blandcruiser!

Steve