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View Full Version : Who knows about 80 series cruisers


peter92
23-08-13, 04:34 PM
Hi Guys,
Just wondering if any one knows things about my 94 1hzj80 series cruiser
If so, let me know so i can discuss a few things i wanted known about mine
Regards Peter

insaneearthling
24-08-13, 12:13 AM
Hi Peter,

My brother runs a 94 1hz cruiser and I've done some work on it. What did you want to know? Not sure if I know enough to help you out but I can ask my brother - he's pretty genned up on his vehicle.

Goodsy
24-08-13, 01:07 AM
Several friends of mine run IHZ cruisers with various setup. What sort of information are you after.
Latest was my mates dad selling his D4D prado at 140000k's after and engine rebuild.
Went back to what he knows. Tows a van with it. Other has a 7 inch lift and 35 inch centipedes on it.:lol9[1]:

peter92
24-08-13, 07:23 AM
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x343/peterfol/WheelAlignment20-08-2013_zps216c5043.jpg (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/peterfol/media/WheelAlignment20-08-2013_zps216c5043.jpg.html)
Ive got a pedders 50mm lift but measures 3'' because it has the springd they put in mine cruisers for constant weight and wanted them to see what they thought of the wheel alignment sheet
Thanks Guys
Regards Peter

TristanNL
24-08-13, 08:25 PM
Ive got a pedders 50mm lift but measures 3'' because it has the springd they put in mine cruisers for constant weight and wanted them to see what they thought of the wheel alignment sheet
Thanks Guys
Regards Peter

Don't have an 80 series or experience with one.

What are your concerns? Looking at before and after - and not seeing change in many of the fields? And/or not within the listed specifications?


This thread talks about a few of the methods (and associated complications) for adjusting a solid live axle.

http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=68855

Cheers

insaneearthling
25-08-13, 02:17 AM
Hi peter,

Sorry, my brother is more of an engine/transmission/drivetrain person so he has no idea about suspension stuff

nj swb
25-08-13, 09:54 AM
I'm no wheel alignment expert, but that sheet doesn't make any sense to me.

The before & after figures are different, which implies measured twice, but the final numbers don't look good to me - surely they don't think they "fixed" anything? Total front toe of zero?

If this was before & after the suspension lift I would expect the caster angle to reduce - unless they installed caster plates, which I wouldn't think was necessary for 50mm?

I remember reading some time back that the best place for a solid axle wheel alignment is somewhere that does truck alignments. I imagine it won't be cheap.

dhula
25-08-13, 02:31 PM
Was the 80 already lifted prior to this lot of suspension work? That could be an explanation of the numbers on the sheet.
Just to set the record straight for those that may not know, the before/after numbers are usually before the adjustment is done and after the adjustment is done, not before the suspension is replaced and after then the final alignment is done.


Specs from the book are:
Camber: 1 deg +/- 0.75 deg. Allowable difference = 0.5 deg or less
Caster: (fat tyres) 1.67 deg +/- 1 degree (skinnys) 3 deg +/- 1 deg. Allowable difference = 0.5 deg or less no matter the tyre
Toe in: (It depends on tyre but for the majority of tyres in use in Aus) 2mm +/- 2mm total



Going by the sheet it tells a few stories apart from Glen perhaps not setting the machine up properly.

Camber is not in spec and you'll likely end up with tyre wear on the inside of the R tyre and the outside of the L tyre. I doubt it would be noticeable though unless you leave the tyres on the same corner till they are stuffed. There are several methods of fixing caster from using a special machine (and a good operator) to bend the front axle to fitting offset swivel pin kits.
The numbers you've got could also be due to poorly adjusted/worn swivel pins or poory adjusted wheel bearings so check them first before doing any other more intrusive work.

Caster The sheet says you have the skinnies on so caster is kinda in spec but IMO could be much better, but it would take some time and effort to get it spot on. It looks like the car may have been fitted with caster bushes or perhaps caster plates when the susp work was done :dunno[1]:. Usual rule of thumb is every inch (25mm) up you go there needs to be 1 deg of offset to bring the caster back into somewhere reasonable.

Toe in is not in spec. It shows that one side is toeing in (pos #) and one side is towing out (neg #). The numbers indicate as the car went up in height the drag link may not have been adjusted to suit although it appears the tie rod may have been adjusted to get total toe to zero. The best way IMO to get it right is to adjust the drag link first and then adjust the tie rod to that so that toe in is where it should be which in this case will be 1mm +/- 1mm each side (they should be the same or close as a bees nut).


You may find the 80 wants to pull to one side and will probably happen at highway speeds more than slower speeds, but it may not be noticeable or explained away as the camber on the roads we have in Aus

Goodsy
25-08-13, 04:21 PM
Toe in is the biggest one. Get another wheel alignment.
But they may say that is all the adjustment there is to play with.

Camber cannot reallty be adjusted (how are your king pins?) but the drag links look like they haven't been touched.
If they are adjusted correctly your camber may come into line.

peter92
25-08-13, 09:37 PM
Hi Guys ,heres the storey
Its been fitted with a PEDDERS 50mm lift, But measures 75mm
The springs are the same as they put in the mining 4x4s to take weight
Its supose to have 2.5 deg bushes in the radius arm, i didnt put them in ,car yard did
When i first got it, it was fitted with std bushes in the radius arm and it drove like crap and the castor was way out, hense the 2.5 deg bushes
Toyota says caster should be 3.0deg
But for every 25mm lift you add 1.76 deg
so with that in mind its 75mm lift so has 2.5 deg bushes
I did get told it had castor plates fitted at some time but wether it is supose to have them fitted now i dont know
i do have 5.0 deg castor plates here but dont know if they need to be fitted
so if any one here knows some thing please let me know
Regards Peter

grhyso
26-08-13, 12:35 AM
bear in mind peter your 75mm lift may be caused by the old suspension sagging meaning you actually may only have a 50mm lift over standard height. or are you comparing to other 80's?

I'd recommend either offroad80s forum or LLCOOL forum for all landcruiser issues also, those guys will know them inside out and be able to answer these more specific questions much quicker.

Good luck, I have no idea with wheel alignments and really just try and find someone who knows what they're doing and trust them :dunno[1]:

peter92
26-08-13, 09:12 AM
Thanks for the info , i am a member on the 80s forum but im getting too much coflicting info, one guy said getthe plates ,so i did. Just thought i would try onather avenue
pedders said they only have 50mm lift, thats it
but after measuring from centre of wheel to under the guard it measures 75mm
cant figure that out
regards peter

peter92
26-08-13, 03:44 PM
I just rang pedders here in maryborough and they told me that
it is an extra heavey duty suspension made for carrying constant wait
it does have 2.5 deg castor bushes
but i cant under stand why the differanse in the left to right hand side castor readings
final
left 4.39
right3.73
why arent they the same
Regards Peter

dhula
26-08-13, 07:17 PM
if my experience is anything to go your 75mm of lift will settle to more like 65-70mm in the not too distant future and most likely down to a true 50-60mm once all settled and run in and carting what ever weight you chuck in the back.

The castor is different on each side most likely because they didn't match both arms directly too each other.

Getting the toe right would be something you should look into IMO as it's an easy thing to adjsut and get right.

Does the 80 pull left/right, if markedly so after the toe is set properly then you may need to revisit the caster bush placement in the arms.

peter92
26-08-13, 07:29 PM
TrakRyder OUTBACK The spring and shock absorber rates were developed to provide improved ground clearance, increased suspension travel while improving vehicle stability on all road surfaces. This kit provides improved articulation on uneven road surfaces and improves tractability of all four wheels in difficult situations. It also allows for increased loads, such as camping or similar equipment. The increased ride height of up to 2” (50mm ) enabling the vehicle to have the ability to ford creek or river crossings without getting your feet wet, (within reason) as well as improving the entry and exit angle of severe undulating terrain.

Compatibility: For vehicles being used for on and off road as well as general commuting. Ideal for towing caravans, horse floats, camper and general trailers. The kits would be ideal for vehicles fitted with a bull bar and driving lights, a dual battery system, standard wheels with off road tyres fitted. The kit does also have the ability to manage the extra weight of items, such as under car protection plates, roof racks, long range fuel tanks and rear drawer storage systems.
This is whats Fitted
Regards Peter

dhula
27-08-13, 12:21 AM
Here is (http://www.lcool.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1631&highlight=pedders) a link to a thread about Pedders on 80's over on LCOOL.
It's a bit old now tho so might help, might not :dunno[1]:

peter92
26-09-13, 07:32 PM
Hi Guys
After replacing every steering component on the front of my cruiser and out of pocket, 2 grand, ive decided to take out the lift and put it all back to std hight
and using genuine Toyota bushes from japan so hopefully the bit of wondering or what ever it called will be gone
it doesn't tram track or things like that, it just goes from one side to the other when ever it feels like it and im in the middle just turning the wheel to keep it on my side of the road
will let you know how it goes when I get the springs and new bushes in
Regards Peter

markpeh
27-09-13, 08:32 AM
Have you driven other 80's? They are not the best on road drive, especially after driving a pajero. The 80's I have driven (and 70 series utes) have all had steering that is less than precise. Especially with big tyres. If you have replaced every thing do you think you could be expecting too much?

peter92
27-09-13, 09:56 AM
Yeah, ive driven one of my mates cruisers and that's std , with 265/75/16 wheels the same as mine and it drives great
im thinking that who ever had mine took a bigger lift out and just put this in
ive still got a few bushes to replace in the rear, there not stuffed but after chasing this problem , once changed I know there right
im prity sure that once ive got it back to factory it will be sweet
ive talked to other older guy,s that ive met with and 80 that are towing a van and they say theres drives great, so my fingers are crossed
Regards Peter

dhula
27-09-13, 07:12 PM
Guessing you checked wheel bearings and swivel pins to make sure hey were adjusted properly or adjusted them properly if they weren't before spending heaps to replace stuff.

80s do suffer badly from "variable" steering when the wheel bearings are not adjusted properly, good idea to get the rear bearings spot on also.

Have you checked the chassis for cracks near the steering box, this is a common failure point on early for 80s that have been fitted with big tyres and wheeled hardish that can cause steering issues.
Other places I've heard of cracking are around the panhard mount as well which can cause the front to shift side to side slightly when driving

peejay68au
27-09-13, 11:13 PM
Have you driven other 80's? They are not the best on road drive, especially after driving a pajero. The 80's I have driven (and 70 series utes) have all had steering that is less than precise. Especially with big tyres. If you have replaced every thing do you think you could be expecting too much?

Seriously they're not as bad as that. Mine drives the same if not better than the nj ever did.

peter92
28-09-13, 07:02 AM
ive checked all the obvious places, but at least when its back to std height it gives me some thing to work on
regards peter

peter92
01-10-13, 08:31 PM
Hi Guys
I have taken out the adjustable castor bushes and put rubber std one in
It drives sweet, so after I put the std springs in it should be even better
just goes to show how some times no,s don't mean a thing
listen to what the 4wd is saying, im rapt, after a year and listening to others I should have listened to mysef ages ago
Regards Peter

scruffy
01-10-13, 08:43 PM
congrats Peter, now all you have to do is get the Dobinsons suspension and all will be good. Bob

peter92
01-10-13, 08:46 PM
Yeah I know, that's later, will get it all sort for sure first
regards Peter

peter92
09-10-13, 07:17 PM
Hi Guys
Im going to replace my bushes in the front radius arms but I don't have a press or the means to get one so how else could I put the bushes in
Regards Peter

Pajbus
09-10-13, 07:24 PM
Hi peter92, take the arms around to Maryborough service centre and ask for daryn. He was a great help when I needed a job done on my way Paj to the tip last year. That or I read your home town wrong

stumaree
09-10-13, 07:45 PM
Hi Guys,
The before figures are when it went on the alignment machine the after figures are after they adjusted it.:beer[1]:

peter92
29-11-13, 08:42 AM
hi guys, thought i would update my findings, took the lift out and put all new toyota rubber bushes in, so now its all std. The only place now on the whole truck that hasnt been replaced is the power steering pump. I took the cruiser to another guy as the steering wont return to centre and he said it was LOW PRESSURE ON THE PUMP, has any one heard of this being the cause, any way, ive ordered a new power steering pump, $400 bucks, so im hoping this fixes it. its cost me nearly $2,100 so far and there is nothing left on the front of this cruiser to replace
I was reading that it could also be the HIGH PRESSURE LINE causing the problem
Is there any one on here that does POWER STEERING that could help me out if it turns out not to be the pump and the problem is still there after the pump is fitted
Regards Peter

scruffy
29-11-13, 09:52 AM
Hi Peter, if its not the power steer pump, then it must be the wheel alignment still isn't set properly for it not to return to centre [or near centre]. Could also try, as a last resort, a 'return to centre' steering damper, but in my exp it has been the wheel alignment not set correctly. Bob

peejay68au
29-11-13, 01:44 PM
Have you checked for accident damage? My 80 has a 2in lift and drives fine with the castor still not 100%, need about 2deg offset bushes. Steering returns to center as before lift. Power steering shouldn't make a difference to rtc, as has been pointed out it's mostly the steering geometry that determines that part of it.

peter92
29-11-13, 02:31 PM
taken the lift out now so the cruiser is all std factory and still wont turn to centre and steering is only a quarter of what the power steering should feel like
was told it is caused by low pressure that's why its not returning to centre at all
go around the corner and let go of the wheel and it keeps going in the same direction, the steering wheel wont turn back to the centre
Regards Peter

peter92
29-11-13, 03:53 PM
ive stated another thread
Regards Peter

dhula
29-11-13, 06:02 PM
where abouts is your new thread as I can't find it. Interested to follow the outcomes

peter92
29-11-13, 06:04 PM
Looking for help from power steering guys (http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=35849)
Here is the thread
Regards Peter