Jerry Can Holder

[Doowrag]

Just an Idea....

Need somewhere to carry a jerry can for long (>300kms) trips but got nowhere to fix it. I see some Gen 1's have them on the rear left but I believe they have special mounting brackets in the body which mine doesnt have, can go behind the backseat but my 2yo wouldnt appreciate the fumes.

Anyway the thought is to fab a jerry can holder to bolt straight onto the spare wheel holder, chuck the spare in the roof basket. Would only need it for big trips, generally it will sit in the shed and the spare will be in it's rightfull position. I'm pretty sure a full JC wouldnt be any heavier than a spare 31 so that shouldnt be an issue.

Thanks for reading, don't be shy, tell me what you really think.

[Greg]

Not sure on any legalities involved by why not just chuck the jerry in the roof basket? Im guessing that the chances are that you will need the spare more than the jerry can, if not, disregard this idea

[smccask]

yeah, the jerry is lighter and lower profile (wind resistance wise) so better on the roof basket

[Doowrag]

thanks lads, the jerry can I've got would sit up high thats all, maybe I should look at lower ones like they have for boats. I posted this on the 4x4action forum and have been advised it is illegal to carry a jerry can on a door not sure on the logic, when you can buy swing out racks for them but oh well.

[damn_oatesy]

Putting any liquid on the roof is a bad idea. When your 4wd makes a sudden lurch in any direction the liquid on the roof takes a moment to complete the same lurch, and depending on the amount of liquid, this weight shift could cause your 4wd to tip over. my advise is to take off the inside of the back door and have a look for some hard point to attach a custom bracket to.

[CeeJay]

I'm not sure, a 20l jerry holds about 17kg of fuel. 17kg sloshing around isn't going to affect 3 tonnes of vehicle one way or the other (0.5% total weight), even if up on the rooof where the turning moments (torque I guess!) will be greater. 2 or 3 jerrys is very unlikely to, and bear in mind that jerrys are usually either empty or full. When full there is not much 'slosh space'. I reckon if it's gonna go it's gonna go, and a little fuel won't make much difference. Put a long range tank on the roof and it would be a different story though I suppose.

[Easykill1978]

Just an Idea....

Need somewhere to carry a jerry can for long (>300kms) trips but got nowhere to fix it. I see some Gen 1's have them on the rear left but I believe they have special mounting brackets in the body which mine doesnt have, can go behind the backseat but my 2yo wouldnt appreciate the fumes.

Anyway the thought is to fab a jerry can holder to bolt straight onto the spare wheel holder, chuck the spare in the roof basket. Would only need it for big trips, generally it will sit in the shed and the spare will be in it's rightfull position. I'm pretty sure a full JC wouldnt be any heavier than a spare 31 so that shouldnt be an issue.

Thanks for reading, don't be shy, tell me what you really think.

there are some pajeros that have the jerry can holder on the bumper.. why not go to the wreckers and find one.. or make one.. it swings out so the door can open. it is one of the things i am building for my trip. i am also having a wheel and 2 can holder built that will go into the draw bar location (its designed to pull a 2 tonne carravan.. )

the more weight you place on the door the worse it will be for the hinges.. keep that in mind.. once my trip is done next year i am going to have my wheel removed from the door and it will also go on the bumper.. and the lights remade to fit higher up the sides... less on the door is better..

not to mention i plan on fitting my 12inch to the inside of the door and well yeah less weight is less weight..

Easy

[mrbitchi]

You used to be able to carry a jerry on the back but I think the rules have changed and it's no longer legal. Think of the consequences of a rear ender with a full jerry of petrol between the two cars......

[Doowrag]

I'm not sure, a 20l jerry holds about 17kg of fuel. 17kg sloshing around isn't going to affect 3 tonnes of vehicle one way or the other (0.5% total weight), even if up on the rooof where the turning moments (torque I guess!) will be greater. 2 or 3 jerrys is very unlikely to, and bear in mind that jerrys are usually either empty or full. When full there is not much 'slosh space'. I reckon if it's gonna go it's gonna go, and a little fuel won't make much difference. Put a long range tank on the roof and it would be a different story though I suppose.

I agree, the trucks not set up for climbing rock ledges or anything, i think the effect would be neglible. I do understand where your coming from though anything up there raises the centre of gravity but in this case i think neglible.

[Doowrag]

Good to see all the feedback though, keep the ideas coming. Someone out there will have the answer that will trigger a flurry of ideas.

[CeeJay]

Guys, this from Exploroz:

Looks like only Tasmania specifically prohibits fuel on the rear bar, and most states don't consider diesel a hazardous material. This is from a 2004 post though, so could be out of date, and as per previous moderator comments - don't take legal advice from strangers on the internet!! If in doubt contact QDMR, RTA etc.

Charlie

WHAT IS THE LAW?

WESTERN AUSTRALIA
The WA Dangerous Goods Act 1988, and Dangerous Goods (Transport) (Road and Rail) Regulations
1999, contains the relevant regulations, both of which are based on the Australian Dangerous
Goods Code (ADGC), sixth edition.

The maximum permissible quantity is 250 litres of PETROL, which should be carried in approved
containers in either the boot or on external brackets. It can be carried within the passenger
compartment, such as the back of a station wagon, in approved, properly restrained containers,
but this is not recommended.
Contact the Explosives and Dangerous Goods Division of the WA Department of Mineral and
PETROLeum Resources for further into (08 9222 333)

QUEENSLAND
The Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Dangerous Goods) Regulation 1998 permits
carrying up to 250 litres of dangerous goods (fuel) for personal use. The responsibility for
filling a jerry can and ensuring it is an approved container lies with the person filling the
container.

Under the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 owners are prohibited from
modifying their vehicle, its parts or equipment, and from carrying dangerous goods
(irrespective of quantity or position), in an unsafe manner.

This includes carrying containers upright, ensuring they don't leak and are properly secured,
and do not overload the vehicle (especially if transported on roof-racks). A booklet titled Load
Restraint Guide (available from Commonwealth Government Bookshops) should be consulted
Write to: Greg Swann, Group Manager, Vehicle Safety and Industry Reform Section,
Queensland Transport, PO Box 673 Fortitude Valley QLD 4006.

SOUTH AUSTRALIA
In South Australia, PETROL is covered by the Dangerous Substances Act and Regulations, which are
in turn based on the ADGC; therefore, the same 250- limit applies.

Diesel is unregulated, as elsewhere, but the Department for Administrative and Information
Services advises that PETROL (and diesel) transportation would be covered by the general duty of
care provisions contained in Sections 11 and 12 of the Dangerous Substances Act.

The Road Traffic Act has provisions for duly of care relating to vehicle safety issues such as
overhanging loads and impact protection. They also state that, while carrying fuel in the
driver's vapour space (in a van or wagon), is much debated, it is up to each individual driver
to assess their own risk and duty of care provisions when deciding whether to fit a range tank
or carry fuel in jerry cans. Dangerous Substances Branch, Workplace Services (08) 8303 0447

VICTORIA
In Victoria, the relevant legislation is the Road Act 1995, which has been adopted from
the, (Dangerous Goods) Act -1995 and the Road Transport (Dangerous Goods) Regulations.

The Regulations reference the ADGC under which Regulation 1.10 exempts small quantities of fuel
from the rigours of the Dangerous Goods legislation. This refers, again, to PETROL only. Diesel
is not considered dangerous goods.

They maintain it is the responsibility of the driver items, regardless of type, are firmly and
a fuel should be stored in AS2906 containers minimum requirement.
Write to: Victorian WorkCover Authority, Dangerous Goods Unit
GPO Box 4306 Melbourne Vic 3001

TASMANIA
The Tasmanian government refers these, issues to the Dangerous Goods (Road and Rail Transport)
Regulations 1998, which covers general safety and load restraint safety.

The filling of fuel containers is also covered by AS1940 - Storage and Handling of Combustible
and Flammable Liquids. They advise that a person can carry 250 litres of PETROL for private use
(as per the ADOC), but the containers must meet AS2906 Fuel Containers/Portable/Plastics and
Metal.

Tasmanian Vehicle and Traffic (Vehicle Standards) that an object fitted to a vehicle must be
designed, built and maintained to minimise the likelihood of injury. As such, this would
prohibit the fitting of jerry cans containing dangerous or explosive substances to any vehicle
(car,4WD, caravan, trailer), especially given the likelihood of rear or side-impact collisions.

Owners of vehicles should check the 'fine print' of their insurance policies. If fuel is
transported in an unsafe manner and an accident leads to greater damage or injury than might
otherwise have been the case apportion blame to the driver and/or invalidate the policy.
Write to: The Department of Infrastructure, Energy and Resources,
GPO BOX 936 HOBART TAS 7001.

NEW SOUTH WALES
The NSW Environment Protection Authority (EPA) and WorkCover NSW are the competent authorities
for dangerous goods control in NSW. They' administer the Road and Rail Transport (Dangerous
Goods) Act 1997 and the Road Transport Reform (Dangerous Goods) (NSW) Regulations 1998.

Under these laws, jerry cans must be approved containers for the transport of Class 3 liquids
(PETROL) (ie, AS2906) and the maximum permissible quantity is 250 litres. Diesel is not
considered a dangerous good, but a combustible, and must be carried in a safe manner.

Division 9.3.1 (1) (e) of the ADGC states that 'if the package (ie, jerry can) contains
dangerous goods of a kind that may lead to the formation of flammable, toxic or other harmful
atmospheres - the package must be stowed so that no harmful atmosphere will accumulate in the
cabin If the package leaks'.

The above would indicate that great care should be taken when storing jerry cans INSIDE a 4WD's
luggage compartment, whether it is a separate boot or part of the passenger compartment. AS2906
containers are designed not to vent to the atmosphere, provided they are in good condition and
the seals/lids are functioning correctly.

Write to: NSW Environment Protection Authority
Dangerous Goods Office
59-61 Goulburn St, Sydney NSW 2000.

NORTHERN TERRITORY.
Only containers which comply with Northern Territory Dangerous Goods Regulation 217 can be used
to transport flammable, (PETROL.) and combustible (diesel) fuels. Essentially, this covers
containers complying with AS1533/34 and AS1 940, but 'approved container' is also specified
which indicates that containers complying with AS2906 would also be acceptable.

The Northern Territory Dangerous Goods legislation is b ADGC, which specifies that not more
than 250 litres of PETROL can be carried. No quantity is specified for diesel.

Information bulletins are available at www.nt.gov.au/cbb/wha or contact
The Department of Industries and Business, Work Health (08) 8999 511 8

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY
The transport of fuel is covered under the Dangerous Goods Act. 1975, Dangerous, Goods
Regulations 1978, Road Transport Reform (Dangerous Goods) Act 1995 and Road Transport
(Dangerous Goods) Regulations. The latter takes its requirements from the ADGC.

The DGA (1975) Section, 12 and 14 require fuel to be carried in appropriate, containers
to prevent spillage or leakage, and make it an offence to carry fuel in a manner likely to
cause death/injury, or damage to property.

Section 37(1) of the RTR (DIG) Act1 1995 requires fuel be transported in a safe manner.
Sub Section (2) makes it an offence to do so where a person "ought to have known" that what
they were doing was unsafe or likely to cause damage to persons or property.
Contact: ACT WorkCover (Dangerous Goods) (02) 6207 6354

[Doowrag]

Thanks CeeJay, thats real handy. I've been thinking though, I would hate to think what would happen to me and the other car if I was to rear end somebody carrying 20L of petrol on their rear bumper.

What I'm trying to say I guess is it doesnt matter how carefully i drive with my JC's on the back it only takes one other driver not concentrating to run up my ass and cause huge chaos.

Maybe it would be a good idea to legally prohibit carrying explosive goods externally, as much as it may piss the 4x4 touring community off.

Chris

[CeeJay]

Maybe, but then you have the trailer/caravan community saying it's safe as there's a 'buffer' there etc etc. There are always exceptions. And what about diesel - much less likeley to burn/explode than petrol. Long range tank or on the roof in my opinion.

[Philthy]

I think that it is only illegal to have petrol as opposed to diesel on the back of your car, after all look at all the aftermarket swing out jerry can carriers on custom rear bumpers from the likes of ARB, TJM etc.. must be legal if they are allowed to sell.

If you're real lucky you will find a factory swing out carrier which is mounted on the LHS rear corner (go for the jap wreckers). The main issue is that a special internal mount was fitted which included the nuts, but I reckon that anyone with a bit of metal work skill (welding) should be able to knock up the plate and the nuts to receive the carrier. I believe that the plate is a load bearer so that the carrier does not pull through the outer panel skin. You can get to the bolts via the inside trim panel or tail light (I think). You may be able to achieve a similiar result with large washers.

I found one a few years ago but did not have the time or the tools to remove it at the time and when I returned it was gone. My car is petrol anyway, and now dual fuel (lpg). so no longer an option.

Philthy

[Doowrag]

I think that it is only illegal to have petrol as opposed to diesel on the back of your car, after all look at all the aftermarket swing out jerry can carriers on custom rear bumpers from the likes of ARB, TJM etc.. must be legal if they are allowed to sell.

Who knows, Sling shots are ilegal too but you can buy them from most 4x4 and camping shops, as long as they are in pieces.

Might be able to find someone to make a custom 70 odd litre tank to fit where the existing one is.

Thanks for the help guys.