NS DID performance enhancement

[rotare]

in the meanwhile, i've been looking at water-to-air charge coolers like this kit by AVT sold on chargecooler.co.uk

Try these guys and they are located in Australia

http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_1.htm

[Vicks]

I believe you'd need a dedicated coolant reservoir and additional radiator to cool this fluid to have any effect at all. Your standard air-air intercooler would have a temp differential of say 3:1 - ambient over inlet temp, engine coolant would be only just over 1:1, I believe you would end up with a higher inlet temp in your scenario. Happy to be corrected.

Shane.

Sorry if my post was misleading, but i don't plan on tapping into the engine radiator for this purpose (there will be an additional radiator and a reservoir, exactly as you mentioned). If you read my post. i mentioned about setting up a radiator in the rear (luggage/boot space) of the car, which will be connected to the charge cooler. I think the mention of coolant mislead you, but the plan is to use water or coolant mixture (as we use in the engine cooling system) in this intake air cooling system also. This will be a seperate circuit independent of the engine cooling system.

Try these guys and they are located in Australia

http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category76_1.htm

thanks for the link, prices don't look any more attractive than the UK ones.



The next problem i see is that this will be a pressurised system and the enclosure will need to cope with it as such. So, it looks like the enclosure will need to be welded onto the intercooler.

[sharkcaver]

Sorry mate, I must have missed that bit would be interesting to test inlet temp both before and after. Keep us posted, sounds like a great mod.

Shane.

[Wrex]

A few people have mentioned aftermarket exhausts for there DPF fitted diesels to help with power and economy.

I spoke today with Taipan exhausts and had an interesting conversation.

My intension was to fit a full 3 inch system with catalytic converter and no DPF. I currently run no DPF atm. As my car is a SWB with Auxillary tank there is no system i can buy off of the shelf. Seeing as Taipan do an off the shelf system for the LWB I thought if I could buy the premade dump pipe and Cat converter I would get the rest custom made here in Perth.

Taipan said that there is not an aftermarket Catalytic converter that can deal with the temperatures created when the car does it "prescribed burn"
which is apparently every 30min. This is regardless of if you have the DPF fitted or have removed it. They are trying to source one that will handle the operating temperatures.

I have been quoted $1200 for a custom 3inch stainless steel mandrel bent system with no catalytic converter but the fines are outrageously expensive so I will not go down this line.

So now i am in limbo with the stock system which is still choking the car with the Chip it chip and my own dpf delete pipe.

[Vicks]

Sorry mate, I must have missed that bit would be interesting to test inlet temp both before and after. Keep us posted, sounds like a great mod.

Shane.

I read somewhere that the stock air-to-air charge cooler (intercooler) reduces air temps by approx 25-30degC while operating in ambient temps of 30DegC. I am currently trying to look for a setup which i can install at several places
1. Air intake at stock snorkel (ambient - can't trust the onboard temp display on centre console)
2. EGT at exhaust manifold before Turbocharger
3. Inlet of intercooler
4. Inlet manifold

A few people have mentioned aftermarket exhausts for there DPF fitted diesels to help with power and economy.

I spoke today with Taipan exhausts and had an interesting conversation.

My intension was to fit a full 3 inch system with catalytic converter and no DPF. I currently run no DPF atm. As my car is a SWB with Auxillary tank there is no system i can buy off of the shelf. Seeing as Taipan do an off the shelf system for the LWB I thought if I could buy the premade dump pipe and Cat converter I would get the rest custom made here in Perth.

Taipan said that there is not an aftermarket Catalytic converter that can deal with the temperatures created when the car does it "prescribed burn"
which is apparently every 30min. This is regardless of if you have the DPF fitted or have removed it. They are trying to source one that will handle the operating temperatures.

I have been quoted $1200 for a custom 3inch stainless steel mandrel bent system with no catalytic converter but the fines are outrageously expensive so I will not go down this line.

So now i am in limbo with the stock system which is still choking the car with the Chip it chip and my own dpf delete pipe.

My Paj (middleeast spec) has no DPF, so thats one less thing for me to worry about, thankfully.

Its interesting that you discussed about "prescribed burn" being performed in the cat-con as i dont see any wires/pipes leading to/from the cat-con on my Paj !!! My understanginig (Pls correct me if i'm wrong) is that the cat-con gets up to operating temp (with help from the secondary air injection during startups) and then goes about doing its job burning off the hydrocarbons and this is a continuous process. So, if this is the case, what is the meaning of "prescribed burn" being performed every 30mins ?

Is the stock exhaust pipe 2.5" through out or does it vary ?

I'm not very enthusiastic about making mods on the exhaust as i'm afraid it will increase the noise from the already noisy diesel.

Why don't you buy the 3" system and retrofit the stock cat-cons into it ? I think this might be a good solution for you. Depending on the way the pipes are mated to the cat-con you might have to get a new adapter flange or get the 3" pipe welded onto the cat-con.

[Wrex]

Vicks you have to stop rubbing it in that you don't get a dpf over there.


All a prescribed burn is, is more fuel added to increase exhaust temp to burn the particulates in the dpf. The increase in temp is through the whole exhaust hence why they are still looking for one that can handle the temperatures. It is not an isolated burn to a particular location.

Hope that helps.

[Angry]

Wrex, not doubting you but I wonder about some of these guys giving advice, I seriously doubt that the DPF does a burn every 30 minutes regardless ,.........imagine the crap fuel economy,.......OK so its not great standard but a burn every 30 minutes ???

Has anyone else removed thier DPF ??, have they had problems with Programmed Burns ??, from what I understand the pressure sensors detect the blockage of the DPF then wheit senses this goes into a burn cycle.

I know when I drive around really steady & get home the moment I pull intot he garage I vcan smell it doing a burn IT STINKS !, when I drive it normally (read foot on the gas) it never does the smelly burn, equally when its towing the boat & gets to the ramp I cant smell it doing a burn.

I'd suggest that the hard work of pulling the boat makes it run fairly hot in which case the DPF would heat up & burn itself clean without the extra fuel.

Of course I could be wrong.

[Angry]

[QUOTE=Vicks;104967]Sorry if my post was misleading, but i don't plan on tapping into the engine radiator for this purpose (there will be an additional radiator and a reservoir, exactly as you mentioned). If you read my post. i mentioned about setting up a radiator in the rear (luggage/boot space) of the car, which will be connected to the charge cooler.

Vicks I cant possibly see how a sepoerate radiator situated in the rear storage area is possibly going to get enough air passing through it to cool anything , if it did think aboiut the heat it would throw ff into the interior of the vehicle.

You need to mount it all under the bonnet with the sep radiator in front of the engine radiator,

[Vicks]

Wrex, not doubting you but I wonder about some of these guys giving advice, I seriously doubt that the DPF does a burn every 30 minutes regardless ,.........imagine the crap fuel economy,.......OK so its not great standard but a burn every 30 minutes ???

Has anyone else removed thier DPF ??, have they had problems with Programmed Burns ??, from what I understand the pressure sensors detect the blockage of the DPF then wheit senses this goes into a burn cycle.

I know when I drive around really steady & get home the moment I pull intot he garage I vcan smell it doing a burn IT STINKS !, when I drive it normally (read foot on the gas) it never does the smelly burn, equally when its towing the boat & gets to the ramp I cant smell it doing a burn.

I'd suggest that the hard work of pulling the boat makes it run fairly hot in which case the DPF would heat up & burn itself clean without the extra fuel.

Of course I could be wrong.

He's talking about the cat-con, not the DPF.

Vicks I cant possibly see how a sepoerate radiator situated in the rear storage area is possibly going to get enough air passing through it to cool anything , if it did think aboiut the heat it would throw ff into the interior of the vehicle.

You need to mount it all under the bonnet with the sep radiator in front of the engine radiator,

hmmm... this was a doubt that was lingering in the back of my mind. now that you bring it up, i think that it will heat up the interiors pretty bad especially in the summer and the air-con would have to work over time to cool down the interior, there by drawing more power from the engine and negating the power gain due to the cooler intake air to a large extent.

Better mount it outside somewhere. But where ? I can't mount in front of the radiator, the tranny oil cooler is already blocking some of the frontal area and with it getting quite hot (53DegC max) in the summers i can't risk overheating the engine. There is space in the engine bay, but its not a good place to mount a radiator me thinks. What other options do we have ?

[Wrex]

Yep I hear ya Angry. Thats why I not taking it as gospel but putting out there for discussion. I need to talk to a tech from Mitsi to try and sort out fact from fiction.

[tommo1965]

I believe there are two pipes..one at the rear of the DPF and one at the front that monitor exhaust pressure if there is a difference between the two, the burn off is induced...

Id have to say your DPF delete pipe has sorted that Wrex....

after some short trips the DPF on mine is smelling of burnt tyres...and hot enough to stand around on a cold night

[Vicks]

Vicks you have to stop rubbing it in that you don't get a dpf over there.


All a prescribed burn is, is more fuel added to increase exhaust temp to burn the particulates in the dpf. The increase in temp is through the whole exhaust hence why they are still looking for one that can handle the temperatures. It is not an isolated burn to a particular location.

Hope that helps.

Sorry boss !! won't do that again

btw, sent ya a pm about scanguage.. need some urgent feedback about it if i can read the below parameters on it from the NS paj OBD2 connection ?
1. Inlet air temperature at intake manifold
2. Exhaust Gas Temperature before OR after Turbocharger
3. MAP
4. Turbo boost

[Vicks]

a few updates (but no work happening yet) on the proposed designs.

I had a look at the available space OR the lack of it around the stock intercooler. There is hardly any, so it completely defeats my idea of building an enclosure around it to make the water/coolant jacket. I also came across a suitable straight thru design water-air cooler of size 4"x13" for only 170US$ and this fits my plan perfectly.

What i'm gonna do is add a second stage cooling system by replacing a portion of the existing air hose from the outlet of the intercooler, upto the intake manifold, with this 4"x13" water-air cooler. The radiator for this cooler will be mounted in front of the A/c heat exchanger fan. This would not affect the air supply to the main radiator of the engine as the water-air cooler rad has much less heat to remove due to being situated "after" the stock intercooler, which would have removed quite a bit of the heat.

below is a schematic, excuse the bad MS excel usage
Version0


This also means, i will not be screwing around with the stock intercooler and have no risk of damaging it (its a 600AUD part) and all i'l be meddling with is the air duct/hose between the intercooler outlet and the intake manifold. Much cheaper to replace if i FUBAR it.

oh, and btw, i ordered a maxitrip TP100 tool for hooking up to the OBD2 port and monitor the intake air temp, pressure etc. Will have to see if it is worth the 75$ ......

[Wrex]

Sorry boss !! won't do that again

btw, sent ya a pm about scanguage.. need some urgent feedback about it if i can read the below parameters on it from the NS paj OBD2 connection ?
1. Inlet air temperature at intake manifold
YES
2. Exhaust Gas Temperature before OR after Turbocharger
NO
3. MAP
YES
4. Turbo boost
Same as Map

Sorry for the delay mate I forgot :-(

[Vicks]

Wrex, thanks for the feedback. So, you are not monitoring EGTs on you paj ?



I revised the schematic for the stage2 cooling. The fluid pump is classified as being good for pushing and not for pulling, so it needs to be at the lowest point in the circuit to ensure a constant & positive pressure supply of fluid. Also, the cooland flow needs to be in the opposite direction of the air flow for maximum heat exchange (thats what i understood from a few websites describing water-to-air cooling systems - pls correct me if i'm wrong). So now the new schematic will be as below